Elder Holland Tempe Arizona Devotional - "Don't you dare bail"

At 2:10 - "Don’t you dare bail. I am so furious with people who leave this church. I don’t know whether ‘furious’ is a good apostolic word. But I am. What on earth kind of conviction is that? What kind of patty-cake, taffy-pull experience is that? As if none of this ever mattered, as if nothing in our contemporary life mattered, as if this is all just supposed to be “just exactly the way I want it and answer every one of my questions and pursue this and occupy that and defy this – and then maybe I’ll be a Latter-Day Saint”?! Well, there’s too much Irish in me for that."

Views: 12800

Comment by Linda K on April 30, 2016 at 2:32pm

Wow. Not the conversation I would expect to hear if say, Jesus was in the house. This man castigates many diverse views in his rant, and ignores the fact that it is conviction that led many of us to leave the Mormon church. The conviction that blind obedience is not the way we want to live a good life. And I'm still a really good person, if not an even better one, now that I can focus on looking outside the narrow confines of the "exclusive" Mormon church and culture.

Comment by Wednesday on April 30, 2016 at 2:33pm

Dear Elder Holland,

"Apostolic" does not mean what you think it means. It has nothing to do with apostasy or heretical beliefs.

Def: apostolic 

  1. Of or characteristic of an apostle -- the original ones. You know, the twelve men Christ chose, not the Mormon wannabes.
  2. Pertaining to or characteristic of the 12 apostles. Again referring to those Christ chose. Period.
  3. Derived from the apostles in regular succession. (That is, derived from Peter down to the present day.)
  4. Of or relating to the pope; papal. (Yes, the one in Rome.)

Next time, you might consider using "heretical" or "apostate" instead of "apostolic".

The irony I see in your using "apostolic" in place of "heretical" is that only one church on Earth claims direct apostolic succession with no break from Christ to Peter to the present day. That would be the Roman Catholic.

Another irony is that the Catholic Nicene Creed (recited during every High Mass) includes these words: "[We believe] in one, holy, catholic [meaning universal, not Roman Catholic], and apostolic Church." These are called the "Four Marks of the [Christian] Church" and many Protestant churches have also adopted this Creed for their own use.

Belief in an "apostolic" church comes down to whether you believe Christ told the truth when the exchange below took place, or if you believe Joseph Smith told the truth when he claimed Moroni said all the churches on earth had fallen away; and if you believe whatever version of the First Vision where Smith claimed Jesus told Smith that the He would "restore" the church through Smith.

From Mathew 16 (King James Version):

15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. (NOTE: The name Peter is derived, via Latin "petra", from the Greek word πέτρος (petros) meaning "stone" or "rock".)
19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

If Christ told the truth, then His church should have been able to withstand things like the Reformation and the formation of over 22,000 Protestant churches in the 400+ years since Martin Luther formed his own church, and Henry VIII followed suit. Or are you (and Smith) claiming Hell is stronger than mankind's foibles? (Henry VIII broke with Rome and created the Anglican church to accommodate his adultery when the Pope would not. Many ex-Mormons point out that Joseph Smith created revelations to accommodate his adultery.)

A convert on a Book of Mormon tour of Mexico told me years ago that either the Catholic church was true, or the Mormon church was true; there was no middle ground when it came to Christianity. I've done my research and I have one question for you, Elder Holland.

Would you please point out to me where in history, exactly, the church Christ founded fell away? While I find can human fault and error in the history of His church, I can't find doctrinal fault/errors, or a falling away in the doctrines of the "one, true, catholic and apostolic church" Christ founded.

Truth does not change. It might be buried, obscured, denied or ignored. 

You, Elder, do not speak truth. Neither did Joseph Smith. And that, Elder, is why this "heretic" left.

Comment by Ironman1995 on April 30, 2016 at 4:16pm

BAIL ? really, joined in 1975 at age 17 who would have thought i wasn't taught or told everything by my leaders. Then i served a mission 77-79 , again further into the Mormon metal steel trap. 2011 i discover the Elder Delbert Stapley letter, Elijah Abel, Joseph 33 wives, multiple versions of the 1st vision, and the list goes on and on . So it would have been nice to come home in 1979 from my mission and left  the church then with the truth. My mission helped me as a person , not so much as a missionary . I have peace now, and this stuff is no big deal, I am numb to it .  

Comment by Ironman1995 on April 30, 2016 at 4:16pm

BAIL ? really, joined in 1975 at age 17 who would have thought i wasn't taught or told everything by my leaders. Then i served a mission 77-79 , again further into the Mormon metal steel trap. 2011 i discover the Elder Delbert Stapley letter, Elijah Abel, Joseph 33 wives, multiple versions of the 1st vision, and the list goes on and on . So it would have been nice to come home in 1979 from my mission and left  the church then with the truth. My mission helped me as a person , not so much as a missionary . I have peace now, and this stuff is no big deal, I am numb to it .  

Comment by Ironman1995 on April 30, 2016 at 4:16pm

BAIL ? really, joined in 1975 at age 17 who would have thought i wasn't taught or told everything by my leaders. Then i served a mission 77-79 , again further into the Mormon metal steel trap. 2011 i discover the Elder Delbert Stapley letter, Elijah Abel, Joseph 33 wives, multiple versions of the 1st vision, and the list goes on and on . So it would have been nice to come home in 1979 from my mission and left  the church then with the truth. My mission helped me as a person , not so much as a missionary . I have peace now, and this stuff is no big deal, I am numb to it .  

Comment by Norton R. Nowlin on May 1, 2016 at 12:16pm

Over the time of 176 year existence, Mormonism has ruined the lives of the millions of struggling Christians who were first deceived into accepting is blasphemous polytheistic theology through  its pseudo-Christian advertising and the lies told in the marketing of its heretical doctrines by its 70,000+ full-time missionary agents, but who later discovered the awful pagan heresies of the Mormon Church and "bailed-out," to use the expression of the false-apostle Jeffrey Holland, of the cult to discover the real Jesus Christ of the Holy Bible. 

Yes, nearly five million of the struggling Christians who were deceived by Mormon missionaries, over 176 years, into joining Mormonism have left the Mormon Church.  The average timespan of the 21st Century Mormon convert is now around thee years before that person discovers the REAL theology of Mormonism, the polytheistic theology not taught during the ritual discussions given systematically to the "investigators" of Mormonism by young brainwashed missionaries.  I was one of those missionaries for 30 years, and sinned a grievous sin in deceiving God's children into believing lies.

If you are interested in helping struggling Christians know about the lies of Mormonism before the Mormon missionaries enter their lives through knocks on their doors, or through the lies of zealous Mormon associates, to delude them into believing that Mormonism is Christian, please let me send you a PDF copy of the smoking-gun proof of Mormon polytheism, "Lesson 21-Man May Become Like God," from the 1984 Melchizedek Priesthood Study Guide, "Search These Commandments," which was proclaimed as canonized Mormon scripture, and commandments, by the First Presidency of the LDS Church, headed, in 1984, by Mormon Prophet Spencer W. Kimball and his three apostle counselors, N. Eldon Tanner, Marion G. Romney, and Gordon B. Hinckley.  "Lesson 21" came directly from the 1844 King Follett Discourse of Joseph Smith, which according to D&C 68:4, was, to the Mormon people, "the mind, the will, and the voice of the Lord, and the power of God unto salvation."  At that time, binding scripture on the Mormon Church was what the Mormon GAs spoke in the name of the Mormon Jesus.  Such a priesthood lesson as "Lesson 21" was, and is, only published in print about every 25 years for the purpose of plausible deniability, just like G.B. Hinckley (the Mormon apostle who approved the publication of "Lesson 21") did on the Larry King Show in the late 1990s when he was asked by Larry King if Mormons believe that God the father was once a man, like you and me."  Hinckley replied, "We don't know much about that."

Please contact me at nrnowlin@yahoo.com and I will promptly send you an electronic of "Lesson 21."  Then you can mass produce it and send it to all struggling Christians who know nothing about the Mormon Church so that they will be prepared for the Mormon missionaries when they try to enter their lives. 

     

   

Comment by Norine Bleakley on May 2, 2016 at 6:16am

Unbelievable. Controlling and deeply manipulative. To describe God as tired (that's why he's 'sleeping' through this storm) with the requests, questions, appeals of those he loves, is to misrepresent God by dethroning and humanising him. Holland is describing himself. The god he knows is a god who would respond in precisely that way. Holland is impatient. Holland is tired. Holland wants to sleep through the LDS resignation storm. God is omnipotentand if he is 'tired' at all He will be exhausted with ecclesiastical bullying of faithful but deceived innocents

Comment by Bruce Holt on May 2, 2016 at 8:40am

Bail? Nope. Booted.

This Ex'd Mormon is looking forward to the implosion. With guys like ol' tired windbag Holland, it shouldn't take too terribly long...

Comment by Bruce Holt on May 2, 2016 at 8:45am

Oh, and once we're out, a tired tirade from ol' flap jowls will stir our hearts enough to bring us back?

Idiot.

Comment by Misty on May 2, 2016 at 12:51pm

Bruce, I loved the last word on your reply, "idiot" hahahhaha made me laugh, could just hear you say it.  Yes, these tired old men are not used to being called out for misinformation, disinformation and outright lies because they have the carrot of eternal life with your loved ones dangling over the members heads, and also threats of all sorts of hideous things if "you don't walk upright and live every principal and vow you have made in the temple this day" (or something like that)   You can get people to do insane things when carrots for your obedience  and threats on your soul when you are a rebel or even a slacker are made.  They have this mind game down!  and it gives them lots of power and lots of $$$$....a win win for them!

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