What could make a TBM finally question the church's truth claims? A shockingly true story!

I will post the email below that surmises an experience that allowed me to see (or rather even begin to question) that Joseph Smith excercised spiritual manipulation over people from my own experience.  Can I relate to how people felt during Joseph Smith's day?  You betcha! 

 

Below: Email last year to a Stake President while I was a TBM, names and locations have been changed:

 

President XXXX,

I appreciate your time speaking with me. I am providing a small amount of back history just to have it in writing, as well as several things I mentioned to you and many more occurrences and teachings I did not tell you over the phone. I will send a few more emails momentarily of ones that Bob has sent to me, and one in which Alan drafted in trying to recruit another young man to Bob's so called "private gospel". The names of the men involved are Bob Deciever, Alan and Trent . Bob is trying to seek out a new convert that Trent baptized named XXXX, but XXXX has so far remained skeptical and has not sought these men out from what I know.  As far as I know Trent has pushed this private gospel message while keeping close contact with Bob about his progress with new convert XXXX.  He was promised by Bob that he was a singular convert ready to receive deeper things "not taught in church".  Alan, a local Nevada member, actively tried to recruit a member from church named Ralph  Smoot, I also believe he has not sought any of this out and is not very interested. I will send those correspondences in another email. So you can see from Bob and Alan’s words how they try and somewhat explain the 'private gospel' in a convoluted and elusive way.


Bob and I have talked over the past several years and he has offered me a lot of counsel. I served my mission in his ward. I agreed to fly out to Nevada to visit him because I was happy to see my old mission grounds, I have family that lives there that I had been wanting to visit, and would visit Bob. I told him I could not afford to go, in which he insisted to buy my plane ticket, which he did. I was told one day, we could go hiking on a mountain together along with Trent and Alan. We would have a testimony meeting, we would have a great spiritual time, we would sings hymns, uplift each other in the gospel, have amazing spiritual experiences... that sort of thing. He alluded to things I did not comprehend at the time and would not clarify his meanings. What unfolded was entirely different from what he represented to me. It is now my opinion that Bob Deceiver is trying to create a new cult offshoot of the church, and that he is actively seeking young men to lead astray from the gospel. Any time I questioned something, he turned it back on me. He never explained himself, but tried to make me feel doubt in my own discernment and attempted to make me feel guilty for doubting him. The influence he has on the other two young men is stronger because they live in the same area and are always together. he has been working on Trent for almost 13 years now, and he has been working on Alan for about 6 months. I fear for them and their young families. Fortunately, I live across the country. I do not know the procedure of church discipline, but sadly, I feel that he needs to be severely disfellowshiped perhaps even excommunicated, for Bob Deceiver is altering the gospel, disagreeing with many aspects of the gospel and modern apostles, downplaying Jesus' Christ's role as the Savior, removing our need to feel the spirit and trying to form a secret society of the "private gospel", called The Terrestialists/Uchdorf's Army of privileged priesthood holders.


Bob told me he once approached a missionary with his ideas. The missionary was uncomfortable and reported it to the mission president. The mission president spoke with Bob and Bob claims it was only a 'misunderstanding' and the mission president sided with him. He claims people take him wrong and call him weird, but I have seen him do this. He only gives a few, slightly skewed ideas that can just be brushed off as being odd, as he purposefully remains elusive. But once he has you alone, he tries to commit you with new covenants and secret combinations that are in no way part of the gospel. That is how he got me on the mountain. Then, when we were alone on top of the mountain, cell phones not working, no other transportation, that is when he pressured me to listen and do these things. I felt coerced and uncomfortable and only wanted to get home.

A few major points of what occurred on the visit with Bob follow. The following are Bob's teachings:


*Asked to command evil spirits to depart from the mountain, so now that we entered the "Terrestrial World" which is free of Satan's power. He then removed his garments, top and bottoms and only had his pants on with no shirt, and said because Satan has no power over us and our priesthood here, we no longer need the shield and protection of the garment. About 30 minutes later he went and put them back on when I did not show approval of his action. The Terrestrial world is the status we had attained because of our chosen status before God.  On the mountain, in which he calls "Mt. Sinai", he said God will teach us what others need to know, so we are asked to invite others into it and actively recruit other priesthood holders to join in the secret group.

*Claims he and us are to no longer adhere to the "public gospel" as taught by the church, but the new "private gospel" which he, Trent and Alan have been writing. He is receiving and writing The Book of Adam, The Book of Benjamin and his friend and scribe, Alan, is writing The Book of Hagoth. They claim these departed spirits are appearing to them and they are writing their stories. But then, he told me it is time for me to be revealing a new book from a departed spirit. I asked, "How does that work?" He said, to ask a question, then write down whatever comes to your mind. The private gospel also comes from new revelations given to Bob and Trent, by Joseph Smith and Brigham Young as well as the teachings of these mentioned books. When on the mountain, he focused all teachings on the new 'private' gospel, and not on any actual doctrines of the true gospel of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

* Instructed a new ordinance of the washing of the feet. In which, he and Trent received a lengthy revelation of the order of washings, and the prayer. The system, is that two men take turns washing each others feet. Pledging to each other to be both Lord and servant of the other. That we would receive personal revelation for the other, in the place of God. That Satan will no longer have power of us any more as consequence of the washing of feet, that we will become one with the Savior, as we covenant to share all that we have with each other; and other powers are attained. This is a saving ordinance that only the elite of the priesthood partakes in. Other 'worthy' priesthood men are also receiving this revelation and fleeing to mountains to do this with each other. This select group of people are known as "Terrestialites." We were instructed to actively recruit and convert others to do this covenant with each other to obtain the same ordinance, but to keep this a secret "sacred" society as others could not understand. I was so bothered with where this was going I asked, "Will I have to share my wife?" Trent remarked, "That isn't what this is about."

* "No other way to become one with the Lord, except for the feet washing ordinance, saved only for the select few." Bob has this document, please ask him for the lengthy revelation of what to do and say for the washing of the feet "ordinance."

* Terrestialists no longer prayer to Heavenly Father, we only pray to Jesus. They bypass saying, "in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen." and simply end the prayer with, "Amen".

* When we teach at church and if we have received this further knowledge, we no longer need the spirit or the help of Heavenly Father, because Heavenly Father wants us to be independent and not rely on him.

* Changed order of blessings in several different ways. 1) Gives blessings over the phone, like apostolic blessings from the pulpit, only he says performed by Melchizedek priesthood.  Trent has done this for Bob too.  He encouraged me to do so as well, which I would not.  2) Asked 3 men to say one blessing together and to take turns without either saying amen, just stepping in to finish the other person's thought. 3) Received a blessing for healing of cancer, but without oil because Trent thought it is not necessary because of our status before God. 4)  was asked by, Alan, to give Alan a blessing of healing and for me to hold his hands and kneel instead of the laying on of hands on his head.

* Bob believes Jesus did not suffer or die for all mankind, but that he died only for those who are righteous.

* Bob received revelation to rewrite The Book of Isaiah and The Book of Revelations and has now published these books.  I can send the copy of Revelation rewrite as evidence.

* Bob claimed God told him to use Alan to be his scribe for several of his writings/revelations. Bob is claiming to be a prophet in this book he wrote entitled, "Growing in Spiritual Power", and includes lengthy excerpts of the lord commanding, "his servant Bob" to reveal things to his family which are binding.

* Bob claims he has shared things with people, and the Lord rebuked him because they were not ready. So he only shares with us what the Lord asks him to.

* Alan said great prophets such as Nephi didn't label themselves as such. He then said, he doesn't label himself as such either, but he feels like he is because the Lord uses him for his simple, innocent, uncluttered mind and humbleness.  Such as recieving  Hagoth's spirit writings, all at the idea of Bob's teaching.  Alan said he would die in front of a firing squad for the book, and if its not true, the church isn't true.  Also, said God told him the book of Adam is true.

* Bob claims he is a prophet. He has several writings in which he is speaking for the Lord. He and Trent receive revelation for each other. He claims, now that we are "one", we only receive revelation not for ourselves, but through Bob, or any other Terrestialite we have become one with through the washing of feet ordinance.

* Bob said people that teach false doctrine, whether they know it or not, are evil.  In or out of the church.

* He looked up to the Heaven's, arms  open and above his head, eyes wide open and prayed. He claimed Benjamin revealed to him that this is the order of prayer he used, and Bob wanted to be like the spirit benjamin.

* He and Trent claim they can now speak to each other 'telepathically', and know each others thoughts, even from long distances. They can also bless each other telepathically, and he says that I should now be able to do this with them.

* Claims he is now "One with Trent". He has "shared in Trent' youth", and has now become both mentally and physically younger. He came to me when I was in a room by myself, dressed only in his garments, and asked me how I liked the way they fit him, tugging at his thigh. Then he sat down next to  me, started rubbing his leg and said, "I want to share in your youth." I asked in a satirical manner, "How does that work?". He said, "It just happens." I have a feeling he would have asked me to do more had I been more receptive. Very uncomfortable and enraging, it was perverted in feeling.

* Had Alan collect 7 smooth stones from a river, which was a reward for the  "Mt. Sinai" visitors, 7 for each "Terristrialite" man in attendance. These stones would be used in our food storage. The Lord will touch the stones so we can use them for light, heat and cooking.

*
God is too busy to attend to us. So, if we are having trials in life, we can pray to our or each other's ancestors we have done temple work for, who will then bless and help us. For example, Bob said his ancestor helped him sing better. Trent said Bob's ancestor helped him with a math class. As ministering angels, they can move storms for us on our behalf.

* Alan told by his parents he was being deceived. His wife is very upset by the things she has heard, and says she is "Sick and tired of sharing her husband with an old man". Alan cried for two hours that he was feeling conflicted. He said he would die for the Book of Hagoth. Bob later calmed his fears. Alan says he is now having some doubts about some things Bob has shared and has decided to back off for a while.  However he says his family is not ready for the "greater things".

* Bob had Alan prepare a 'special cd' for the trip. When I heard it, it was Bob preparing to receive revelation and Alan transcribing it. Bob says he is the Lord's mouthpiece to us. So the words on the cd was Bob's revelation from the Lord.

* Alan and Bob say how that he is now my "Lord/servant" that there are many books that I need to bring forth b/c of my strong spirituality. Alan says the Lord wants me to open myself up to revelation of new/lost records so we can learn even more about this "private gospel" to practice.  Bob has asked me to do the same.

* Bob and Alan went to the mountain recently and many dead spirits spoke to reveal the greater portion of The Word that the Church does not teach, nor would accept. He said he had a voice recording of John, Joseph Smith, Brigham Young and Heber C. Grant. He later recanted and said the voices on the recordings were really Bob's and Trent's voices speaking for the departed spirits.

* A beardless Jesus appeared to Alan in a dream. Alan openly confessed he does not know the scriptures, yet he is receiving new scripture through Hagoth.

* Bob received revelations from Joseph Smith that the next meeting would be held in Nauvoo, and that Joseph would be our personal host. He says it is imperative that our wives are present. Worried about what he has in mind for the women.

* Trent spoke for the Lord. No longer is a blessing what is the Lord's will, but what Bob asks of the Lord. Bob claims he and the Lord have done many 'special projects' together over the years, so God will do what Bob asks. Bob claims he has bladder cancer. He said, 'it is no coincidence I will be healed of this cancer one week before my surgery, and one week prior to discovering he has it.  I believe this is a deception to justify his dark works.

* Bob and Trent felt "Elohim" walking in Bob's living room.

* Bob has seen, the Mt. Transfiguration, the Crucifixion of Christ, angels in the temple, dead spirits of those being  baptized. He sets himself up as a spiritually sensitive and in tune person. In reality, he is using the gospel to bring people to him, then he twists it slowly. Once he has their trust, he introduces these new ordinances and the "Private Terrestrial Gospel, in my experience.

*
Asked his 10 year old granddaughter I had never met before, to put on a pretty dress for me. I felt uncomfortable with this and told her not too. He tried to convince me I needed to see how beautiful she was in her dress. I politely refused, so he pressed her to bring us the camera so he could show me a picture of her in the dress. I was shown the pictures and I just said, "It's nice, the flowers in the background are very pretty."

* Calling the group, "Uchdorf's Army". As righteous priesthood holders called 'Terrestrialists" we can now unlock other powers of the priesthood, based off of his twisted interpretation of Dieter Uchdorf's talk to the priesthood holders.

* I feel like he is grooming and training young men through flattery. He seeks out young men who need/want validation, who are spiritually invested, who need a mentor. He has them seeking his approval and allegiance to him, not to Christ. If I ever question something, he would say  things like, "I'm disappointed you have so little faith in me."

I will send some of the email correspondence between Bob, Alan and a few other men they are trying to recruit in the next email.


I again am deeply troubled by this, and would hope Bob be corrected and stopped because of his recruiting.  Trent said he keeps this secret from his wife, and Alan's wife and parents are troubled and in distress as well. 

I am willing to help, call, or clarify in any way to bring this out into the open and put to an end.

Thank you so much

Name with-held

Views: 716

Comment by Bar Kokhba on September 19, 2012 at 5:19pm

Okay, Mike is right of course, so back on topic for me.  Texas Mike, that sounds like a really strange experience. I don't know what to say except people do some really wierd things.  I think we as humans very often take things to excess, whether it be in relationships, religion, sports or anything else. I do believe your story and I am not surprised by it.  I do think that the original religion verses the one we have now would almost leave the door open for that type of behaviour.  Frankly any modern Mormon lives in a plain vanilla world. If you thought about Mormonnism in it's infancy versus now, the people doing strange things on the mountain are in some odd way being true to the original religion more than the plain vanilla worshipers we have now.  So the real question is whether your odd friends behaviour was inappropriate when wieghed against the early founders of the church, or is the current way of thinking inappropriate.  Although I disagree strongly with the people on the Mountain, I think their quest to be as odd as the founders is perhaps more correct than where the religion ended up. Don't forget that Joe Smith loved the way Brigham spoke in tongues.  Where is that now.  The real truth is the Mormon religion has been morphing into a lifestyle religion for years and it is the religion that is at odds with the zealots and not the other way around.

I hope that makes sense to someone.

Thanks for sharing

Devil Bar

Comment by Tx Davey on September 19, 2012 at 6:14pm
Devil bar, you made a great point. I had those same thoughts after reading the advanced church history. I was thinking wow this spiritual manipulation I went through sounds like non other than joesph Smith with the polygamy and polyandry fear and power plays based on the "greater things of the Lord". It is painful to think that such a close friend spiritually, after 11 years of drawing strength from, turned out to be working an angle on me I had the foggiest to. And he used the mormon platform to catipult his teachings, much like Joseph did. You see some reference to something and use it to justify an advanced explanation that leads to spiritual control an power over the mods of those that think you are spiritually mature and have everyone's best interests. And let's not forget, since I was now "one" in covenant with these men I had access to everything they had, one was a millionaire lawyer in study, the bob guy was a retired dentist and university teacher, the other was some studio owner. I can't even begin to go into how this thing was embarrassing and it took courage to even bring it up to another member. When I did they were floored and disgusted and I began to realize that I hadn't just been part of something dark but that I turned a blind eye to it until I actually was in fear of my life to say anything to anyone. I honestly thought they would come to my house to kill me for breaking my covenant. Anyways, I open to any questions to those interfered in more details.
Comment by Nicholas on September 19, 2012 at 6:42pm

Yes, Texas Dave, I was wondering if you ever got the Stake President's response or heard how the church handled this situation?

Comment by Tx Davey on September 19, 2012 at 7:03pm
6 months after contacting the stake president I found out that he, bob, had his temple recommend taken away and they had monthly meetings with the bishop and two large meetings with a church counsel. The lady I talks with the pres after a full year he said that he extended his temple recommend back. The pres was very disturbed though, and he said that Bob denied everything at first, then he began to admit to the books of Adam and Benjamin, he said "if these books aren't of God then what am I suppose to tell the voices that are talking to me to do?". I was sort of surprised but I guess the man honestly believes he is hearing these spirits. For example three told me that father Adam contacted him when he was swimming and asked him to write his history because he never had the chance to.
Anyways, one thing bob vehemently denied according to the pres was when he came to me dressed in only in his garments and told me he can't wait to share in my youth. I was pretty much convinced that he pres wouldve totally distrusted bob until he came forward and was honest about that. If he has nothing to hide and his intention were pure he wouldve or should've said , oh that? That's just a misunderstanding I didn't mean anything other than strengthening me with his wisdom and youthful zest, but no he flat out said I lied about that important point. So he is goingto the teme again most likely doing waging and anointings and getting his jollies waiting for the next gullible foolery is seekIng further light and knowledge in the temple. This is precisely how he got this one kid to begin learning about revelation and eventually writing the huge book of Hagoth which lead to his confidence in believing he himself was a prophet in te making and lead ultimately to him swearing that he would rather die infringe of a firing squad before denying theseus book. He story is pretty epic, maybe I should write a book?
Comment by Tx Davey on September 19, 2012 at 7:04pm
Above^ the lady I talks with is a typo from the iPhone, it should say I later
Comment by Helpertouch on October 6, 2012 at 1:47pm
I've seen variations on this type of thing over and over. Notice that the "prophet" guy always ends up getting varieties of sex. Notice that there is always an us vs. them mentality, and that the "in" group alway claims superiority over the mainstream and always set themselves above the rules. The real questions how the hell they even get followers, but they seem to.

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