What could make a TBM finally question the church's truth claims? A shockingly true story!

I will post the email below that surmises an experience that allowed me to see (or rather even begin to question) that Joseph Smith excercised spiritual manipulation over people from my own experience.  Can I relate to how people felt during Joseph Smith's day?  You betcha! 

 

Below: Email last year to a Stake President while I was a TBM, names and locations have been changed:

 

President XXXX,

I appreciate your time speaking with me. I am providing a small amount of back history just to have it in writing, as well as several things I mentioned to you and many more occurrences and teachings I did not tell you over the phone. I will send a few more emails momentarily of ones that Bob has sent to me, and one in which Alan drafted in trying to recruit another young man to Bob's so called "private gospel". The names of the men involved are Bob Deciever, Alan and Trent . Bob is trying to seek out a new convert that Trent baptized named XXXX, but XXXX has so far remained skeptical and has not sought these men out from what I know.  As far as I know Trent has pushed this private gospel message while keeping close contact with Bob about his progress with new convert XXXX.  He was promised by Bob that he was a singular convert ready to receive deeper things "not taught in church".  Alan, a local Nevada member, actively tried to recruit a member from church named Ralph  Smoot, I also believe he has not sought any of this out and is not very interested. I will send those correspondences in another email. So you can see from Bob and Alan’s words how they try and somewhat explain the 'private gospel' in a convoluted and elusive way.


Bob and I have talked over the past several years and he has offered me a lot of counsel. I served my mission in his ward. I agreed to fly out to Nevada to visit him because I was happy to see my old mission grounds, I have family that lives there that I had been wanting to visit, and would visit Bob. I told him I could not afford to go, in which he insisted to buy my plane ticket, which he did. I was told one day, we could go hiking on a mountain together along with Trent and Alan. We would have a testimony meeting, we would have a great spiritual time, we would sings hymns, uplift each other in the gospel, have amazing spiritual experiences... that sort of thing. He alluded to things I did not comprehend at the time and would not clarify his meanings. What unfolded was entirely different from what he represented to me. It is now my opinion that Bob Deceiver is trying to create a new cult offshoot of the church, and that he is actively seeking young men to lead astray from the gospel. Any time I questioned something, he turned it back on me. He never explained himself, but tried to make me feel doubt in my own discernment and attempted to make me feel guilty for doubting him. The influence he has on the other two young men is stronger because they live in the same area and are always together. he has been working on Trent for almost 13 years now, and he has been working on Alan for about 6 months. I fear for them and their young families. Fortunately, I live across the country. I do not know the procedure of church discipline, but sadly, I feel that he needs to be severely disfellowshiped perhaps even excommunicated, for Bob Deceiver is altering the gospel, disagreeing with many aspects of the gospel and modern apostles, downplaying Jesus' Christ's role as the Savior, removing our need to feel the spirit and trying to form a secret society of the "private gospel", called The Terrestialists/Uchdorf's Army of privileged priesthood holders.


Bob told me he once approached a missionary with his ideas. The missionary was uncomfortable and reported it to the mission president. The mission president spoke with Bob and Bob claims it was only a 'misunderstanding' and the mission president sided with him. He claims people take him wrong and call him weird, but I have seen him do this. He only gives a few, slightly skewed ideas that can just be brushed off as being odd, as he purposefully remains elusive. But once he has you alone, he tries to commit you with new covenants and secret combinations that are in no way part of the gospel. That is how he got me on the mountain. Then, when we were alone on top of the mountain, cell phones not working, no other transportation, that is when he pressured me to listen and do these things. I felt coerced and uncomfortable and only wanted to get home.

A few major points of what occurred on the visit with Bob follow. The following are Bob's teachings:


*Asked to command evil spirits to depart from the mountain, so now that we entered the "Terrestrial World" which is free of Satan's power. He then removed his garments, top and bottoms and only had his pants on with no shirt, and said because Satan has no power over us and our priesthood here, we no longer need the shield and protection of the garment. About 30 minutes later he went and put them back on when I did not show approval of his action. The Terrestrial world is the status we had attained because of our chosen status before God.  On the mountain, in which he calls "Mt. Sinai", he said God will teach us what others need to know, so we are asked to invite others into it and actively recruit other priesthood holders to join in the secret group.

*Claims he and us are to no longer adhere to the "public gospel" as taught by the church, but the new "private gospel" which he, Trent and Alan have been writing. He is receiving and writing The Book of Adam, The Book of Benjamin and his friend and scribe, Alan, is writing The Book of Hagoth. They claim these departed spirits are appearing to them and they are writing their stories. But then, he told me it is time for me to be revealing a new book from a departed spirit. I asked, "How does that work?" He said, to ask a question, then write down whatever comes to your mind. The private gospel also comes from new revelations given to Bob and Trent, by Joseph Smith and Brigham Young as well as the teachings of these mentioned books. When on the mountain, he focused all teachings on the new 'private' gospel, and not on any actual doctrines of the true gospel of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

* Instructed a new ordinance of the washing of the feet. In which, he and Trent received a lengthy revelation of the order of washings, and the prayer. The system, is that two men take turns washing each others feet. Pledging to each other to be both Lord and servant of the other. That we would receive personal revelation for the other, in the place of God. That Satan will no longer have power of us any more as consequence of the washing of feet, that we will become one with the Savior, as we covenant to share all that we have with each other; and other powers are attained. This is a saving ordinance that only the elite of the priesthood partakes in. Other 'worthy' priesthood men are also receiving this revelation and fleeing to mountains to do this with each other. This select group of people are known as "Terrestialites." We were instructed to actively recruit and convert others to do this covenant with each other to obtain the same ordinance, but to keep this a secret "sacred" society as others could not understand. I was so bothered with where this was going I asked, "Will I have to share my wife?" Trent remarked, "That isn't what this is about."

* "No other way to become one with the Lord, except for the feet washing ordinance, saved only for the select few." Bob has this document, please ask him for the lengthy revelation of what to do and say for the washing of the feet "ordinance."

* Terrestialists no longer prayer to Heavenly Father, we only pray to Jesus. They bypass saying, "in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen." and simply end the prayer with, "Amen".

* When we teach at church and if we have received this further knowledge, we no longer need the spirit or the help of Heavenly Father, because Heavenly Father wants us to be independent and not rely on him.

* Changed order of blessings in several different ways. 1) Gives blessings over the phone, like apostolic blessings from the pulpit, only he says performed by Melchizedek priesthood.  Trent has done this for Bob too.  He encouraged me to do so as well, which I would not.  2) Asked 3 men to say one blessing together and to take turns without either saying amen, just stepping in to finish the other person's thought. 3) Received a blessing for healing of cancer, but without oil because Trent thought it is not necessary because of our status before God. 4)  was asked by, Alan, to give Alan a blessing of healing and for me to hold his hands and kneel instead of the laying on of hands on his head.

* Bob believes Jesus did not suffer or die for all mankind, but that he died only for those who are righteous.

* Bob received revelation to rewrite The Book of Isaiah and The Book of Revelations and has now published these books.  I can send the copy of Revelation rewrite as evidence.

* Bob claimed God told him to use Alan to be his scribe for several of his writings/revelations. Bob is claiming to be a prophet in this book he wrote entitled, "Growing in Spiritual Power", and includes lengthy excerpts of the lord commanding, "his servant Bob" to reveal things to his family which are binding.

* Bob claims he has shared things with people, and the Lord rebuked him because they were not ready. So he only shares with us what the Lord asks him to.

* Alan said great prophets such as Nephi didn't label themselves as such. He then said, he doesn't label himself as such either, but he feels like he is because the Lord uses him for his simple, innocent, uncluttered mind and humbleness.  Such as recieving  Hagoth's spirit writings, all at the idea of Bob's teaching.  Alan said he would die in front of a firing squad for the book, and if its not true, the church isn't true.  Also, said God told him the book of Adam is true.

* Bob claims he is a prophet. He has several writings in which he is speaking for the Lord. He and Trent receive revelation for each other. He claims, now that we are "one", we only receive revelation not for ourselves, but through Bob, or any other Terrestialite we have become one with through the washing of feet ordinance.

* Bob said people that teach false doctrine, whether they know it or not, are evil.  In or out of the church.

* He looked up to the Heaven's, arms  open and above his head, eyes wide open and prayed. He claimed Benjamin revealed to him that this is the order of prayer he used, and Bob wanted to be like the spirit benjamin.

* He and Trent claim they can now speak to each other 'telepathically', and know each others thoughts, even from long distances. They can also bless each other telepathically, and he says that I should now be able to do this with them.

* Claims he is now "One with Trent". He has "shared in Trent' youth", and has now become both mentally and physically younger. He came to me when I was in a room by myself, dressed only in his garments, and asked me how I liked the way they fit him, tugging at his thigh. Then he sat down next to  me, started rubbing his leg and said, "I want to share in your youth." I asked in a satirical manner, "How does that work?". He said, "It just happens." I have a feeling he would have asked me to do more had I been more receptive. Very uncomfortable and enraging, it was perverted in feeling.

* Had Alan collect 7 smooth stones from a river, which was a reward for the  "Mt. Sinai" visitors, 7 for each "Terristrialite" man in attendance. These stones would be used in our food storage. The Lord will touch the stones so we can use them for light, heat and cooking.

*
God is too busy to attend to us. So, if we are having trials in life, we can pray to our or each other's ancestors we have done temple work for, who will then bless and help us. For example, Bob said his ancestor helped him sing better. Trent said Bob's ancestor helped him with a math class. As ministering angels, they can move storms for us on our behalf.

* Alan told by his parents he was being deceived. His wife is very upset by the things she has heard, and says she is "Sick and tired of sharing her husband with an old man". Alan cried for two hours that he was feeling conflicted. He said he would die for the Book of Hagoth. Bob later calmed his fears. Alan says he is now having some doubts about some things Bob has shared and has decided to back off for a while.  However he says his family is not ready for the "greater things".

* Bob had Alan prepare a 'special cd' for the trip. When I heard it, it was Bob preparing to receive revelation and Alan transcribing it. Bob says he is the Lord's mouthpiece to us. So the words on the cd was Bob's revelation from the Lord.

* Alan and Bob say how that he is now my "Lord/servant" that there are many books that I need to bring forth b/c of my strong spirituality. Alan says the Lord wants me to open myself up to revelation of new/lost records so we can learn even more about this "private gospel" to practice.  Bob has asked me to do the same.

* Bob and Alan went to the mountain recently and many dead spirits spoke to reveal the greater portion of The Word that the Church does not teach, nor would accept. He said he had a voice recording of John, Joseph Smith, Brigham Young and Heber C. Grant. He later recanted and said the voices on the recordings were really Bob's and Trent's voices speaking for the departed spirits.

* A beardless Jesus appeared to Alan in a dream. Alan openly confessed he does not know the scriptures, yet he is receiving new scripture through Hagoth.

* Bob received revelations from Joseph Smith that the next meeting would be held in Nauvoo, and that Joseph would be our personal host. He says it is imperative that our wives are present. Worried about what he has in mind for the women.

* Trent spoke for the Lord. No longer is a blessing what is the Lord's will, but what Bob asks of the Lord. Bob claims he and the Lord have done many 'special projects' together over the years, so God will do what Bob asks. Bob claims he has bladder cancer. He said, 'it is no coincidence I will be healed of this cancer one week before my surgery, and one week prior to discovering he has it.  I believe this is a deception to justify his dark works.

* Bob and Trent felt "Elohim" walking in Bob's living room.

* Bob has seen, the Mt. Transfiguration, the Crucifixion of Christ, angels in the temple, dead spirits of those being  baptized. He sets himself up as a spiritually sensitive and in tune person. In reality, he is using the gospel to bring people to him, then he twists it slowly. Once he has their trust, he introduces these new ordinances and the "Private Terrestrial Gospel, in my experience.

*
Asked his 10 year old granddaughter I had never met before, to put on a pretty dress for me. I felt uncomfortable with this and told her not too. He tried to convince me I needed to see how beautiful she was in her dress. I politely refused, so he pressed her to bring us the camera so he could show me a picture of her in the dress. I was shown the pictures and I just said, "It's nice, the flowers in the background are very pretty."

* Calling the group, "Uchdorf's Army". As righteous priesthood holders called 'Terrestrialists" we can now unlock other powers of the priesthood, based off of his twisted interpretation of Dieter Uchdorf's talk to the priesthood holders.

* I feel like he is grooming and training young men through flattery. He seeks out young men who need/want validation, who are spiritually invested, who need a mentor. He has them seeking his approval and allegiance to him, not to Christ. If I ever question something, he would say  things like, "I'm disappointed you have so little faith in me."

I will send some of the email correspondence between Bob, Alan and a few other men they are trying to recruit in the next email.


I again am deeply troubled by this, and would hope Bob be corrected and stopped because of his recruiting.  Trent said he keeps this secret from his wife, and Alan's wife and parents are troubled and in distress as well. 

I am willing to help, call, or clarify in any way to bring this out into the open and put to an end.

Thank you so much

Name with-held

Views: 717

Comment by Tx Davey on September 17, 2012 at 3:16pm

Response from Alan when I told him I will report this to the stake president.

Name With-held

 I appreciate your concern. I feel you have taken everything
that was meant to be sacred and taken it out of context. I have
suffered greatly in my family and I'm already trying to move on and
simply keep what was meant to be sacred in the back of my mind and
move forward with my life. In that same scripture you had me read in
3rd Nephi, the Lord cautioned "For verily, verily I say unto you, he
that hath the spirit of contention is not of me, but is of the devil,
who is the father of contention, and he stirreth up the hearts of men
to contend with anger, one with another." Now I know your not of the
Devil Name with-held because I trust you and I love you and I value your
friendship, but this is becoming contentious with threatenings to call
stake presidents and such. I am trying so hard to put this behind me
and create peace and love for me and my wife and I just want to move
on.
 
Regardless of whether Bob and Trent are wrong or correct, I don't not
feel as though they have been trying to push any idea on me, and I
know that they are not trying to convert the world to new gospel and
they definitely don't claim to be "receiving new revelation for the
church." I felt as though everything that you cited Name with-held was taken
out of context and the meaning that yo put on it could be percieved
from both angles. But I do not choose sides. I have retreated from
all this with an understanding that I need to simply live the gospel
in its purest form and leave the "Extra" doctrinal" understandings to
my own personal revelation and none else, save I hear it from the
prophets mouth.
 
If Bob and Trent, and possibly I, have wild ideas, we need to keep
them sacred and private just like your sacred visions Name with-held. Perhaps
we all thought that we shared common revelations and so we all went up
to the mountain to share them with one another but it turns out that
not everyone felt the same way and so that was an error. I do not
feel lead astray and I agree what Name with-held pointed out to me that
President Harold B. Lee taught: “If [someone] writes something or
speaks something that goes beyond anything that you can find in the
standard Church works, unless that one be the prophet, seer, and
revelator—please note that one exception—you may immediately say,
‘Well, that is his own idea.’ And if he says something that
contradicts what is found in the standard Church works, you may know
by that same token that it is false”
 
I think Name with-held, that you need to courageously have conversations with
Trent and Bob like you did with me, and express your concerns and
ensure that your voice is heard. Express yourself and pray that none
of us are trying to recieve new revelation for the church, which only
the prophet is entitled too. We are hoewever, each entitled to
personal revelation that expounds above that which is taught in the
church, but we need to keep those things sacred and to ourselves.
Tattling to the Nevada stake president is not the answer, for these
things were meant to be sacred and personal, and doing such only seems
to me but contentious. At least for me, it would be as though I am
ratting out sacred personal experiences to someone whom could never
understand them beacuse they were meant for me or you and no one else.
I have already tasted of the bitter pain that came from sharing
sacred experiences with my family that they were not ready to hear.
This did indeed strengthen my testimony though that the things I have
experienced personally on my own are true, but that SACRED EXPERIENCES
ARE FOR PERSONAL BENEFIT and not to the convincing of others such as I
tried to do. Might each of us learn from my experience that sacred
experiences need to be kept personal and shared only when doctrinal
information is given on the subject from the Lord himself.
 
I love all of you and I'm grateful Name with-held for your words of warning and
your willingness to look out for someone like me who knows very
little. I just know in my heart that we need to put out this
contentious flame and each go our own way with a renewed understanding
from the Scriptural light that Name with-held has shared for each of us. If
Trent or Bob or Myself ever feel that Name with-held doesn't understand, then
we need to keep that to ourselves and hld steadfast always to the
gospel for Name with-held has made know, with doctrine, the view of the church.
If anyone doesn't agree with that, then its to their own detriment
and Christ alone can be the final judge of that. If anyone of us
gleans new knowledge or concepts not currently preached over the
pulpet, we need to keep those things to ourselves and strive to never
lead away the body of the church because of it becasue the church only
need to heed to the teachings of the prophets and none else. I am
grateful for the experience on the mountain, because it taught me
that the church is true, but that sacred things need to be kept to
myself and I cannot put my personal beliefs onto someone else. Thanks
Name with-held, Bob, and Trent. Lets each go our own way with renewed
understanding and respect for sacred things.
 
Love Alan

Comment by MikeUtah on September 17, 2012 at 3:56pm

Crazy happenings.  Glad you didn't fall for his appeals.

Comment by newlife on September 17, 2012 at 4:15pm

wow, thats all i can say right now is wow. And holly shit!, that comes to mind to. big business religion is, anyone can make up something and get sheep to follow.

Comment by MM- Marshall on September 17, 2012 at 5:51pm

I know a few just like this guy.  It gets weird.  Good job sticking to your own!

Comment by Tx Davey on September 17, 2012 at 8:16pm
I'm flattered that you think I would make this up. But it's true.
Comment by MikeUtah on September 17, 2012 at 8:57pm

Katia, I take it you've not run into or heard of similar wackos that take their mormon delusion and multiply it 10 fold. I have encountered several such accounts and don't believe this to be made up in the least.  It's amazing what self delusion through confirmation bias can lead people to do.

Comment by Debra on September 19, 2012 at 11:42am

Katia, I have to wonder about you... if you don't see it, it must not have happened... you are so negative on here to others and their opinions and their story's... we live in a crazy world with those who want to lead others into their madness, like Joseph Smith... I have no doubt that that this story is true. Really.... why go thru all that trouble making it up?? I have to wonder if the church still doesn't have you in their bonds...

Comment by Nicholas on September 19, 2012 at 2:54pm

I have to agree with Debra, it seems like your first reaction to people's stories is that they are made up or that the person posting them is a liar. I will admit I have no idea if Texas Dave's story is true. (I think it is). But I have met plenty of people who believe the strangest things so it really isn't a stretch to say that some guy is trying to start his own offshoot of Mormonism with his own revealed doctrine. I also don't believe that you are telling the truth. Nicholas II died in 1918 along with Alexandra, and did not look like the older gentleman in the photo. 

Comment by Bar Kokhba on September 19, 2012 at 3:23pm

Katia,

I believe, you really I do. People question my ancestors at times too, but I don't care because I know what is real and what is not. My Grandfather, always jolly, I never knew him to be angry, always working in his toy shop, but do people believe he is my Granfather, they do not.  He was the kindest man in the world, he would work tirelessly with his staff of handi-capable short people to make toys for pretty much everyone, except really poor kids, and then once a year he would just give all the toys away, and not just in his own neighborhood, but all over the world. In spite of the fact that I have pictures of me sitting on his lap from the time I was small, him smiling, me crying and tugging on that white beard, people still don't think he is my grandfather. 

Then I realized one day, that though I think my grandfather Nicholas, was a Saint, it doesn't matter what he did. It doesn't matter that he created a wonderful place for my grandmother and a whole herd of exotic deer, and handi-capable people, what matters is what I do with my life. 

People will never call me Saint Devil Bar, but thats okay.  I will never be able to give really nice toys to wealthy kids and that is okay. What matters is who I am today.  I don't care if any of my ancestor shined shoes or built trains.

Yes I'm proud of Grandfather Nick, but it's time for me to quit worrying about whether people believe me or not. It's time for me to worry about who I am in the here and now. 

On cold winter nights, usually around December 24th, I lift a glass and toast my Grandfather, but I quit telling people about him now.  Whenever I see a sleigh flying through the sky it makes me think of him and I just smile.  That is good enough for me. 

Devil Bar

Comment by MikeUtah on September 19, 2012 at 5:01pm

There are times and places for silliness, joking around and such.  I don't think calling someone a lier right off the bat without just cause is appropriate and detracts from the feeling of supportive community we strive to establish here.  Please stay on topic and respectful of the OP.

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