Inspired by my brother Carl (Hiker Daddy) who doesn't know if he's a Pagan, but thinks he might be a Naturalist. I guess that would be about the simplest way to identify my beliefs too - so we've got a group of at least two.

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Latest Activity: Jun 30, 2015

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Hunting the Hidden Dimension

Started by Gordo. Last reply by MikeUtah Aug 10, 2011. 3 Replies

The reason I chose this image,is because it is a tree, generated by fractals.Interesting show I saw on Nova about Fractals.…Continue

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Comment by Walter White on December 4, 2013 at 2:26pm

Anyone out there heard of the world transformation movement and the "human condition?"

It is a biological explanation of good and evil and why people are capable of such good and evil acts.  We live in a world of denial (like Plato's cave - especially Mormons) and the human condition information explains why.  I have totally lost my faith in LDS Inc and this science based info fills some of the gaps.

The main idea is that humans are the only creatures that have two learning systems, instinctive (genetic) and nerve based (rational decision making). These two learning systems sometimes conflict because the nerve based system allows us to override the instinctive learning system and leads us to be egocentric, selfish etc.  

A migrating bird is used as an example.  The bird does not know or care to know why it migrates, it just does it instinctively (genetically programmed).  If you imagine putting a nerve based learning system with the instinctive system in the bird, you can see how the bird would start to question why it migrates and try to find answers.  This quest for answers set humans apart from other animals and leads us to be frustrated, egocentric etc., because we are always being criticized by our instincts (genetic programming).  

The questioning behavior probably started about 2 million years ago when humans developed the nerve based learning system and did not run on instinct (genetic based learning system) alone anymore.  In other words, humans are psychologically messed-up and knowing about this condition will help us be less egocentric etc.

I know this is too long, but one more thing to add is that teens often wonder why the world is so fake and they know we should be good to one another etc.  They see the adult world as hypocritical - the human condition info provided an explanation to teens about why the world is so fake.  They don't have to just accept this screwed-up world - they can understand the WHY.

If you read this thanks for your patience.  This is my first post.

Comment by MikeUtah on August 10, 2011 at 12:56pm

Carl, I have had similar thoughts about why natives were so opposed and slaughtered by the arriving Europeans.  It seems they might have been aware that their European model of property rights, consumerism and corporatism would likely fail if the peasants caught onto the wisdom of the native people.  I think we will eventually have to go back to a similar commons model if we are to survive and preserve the planet in harmony with nature.

Comment by Carl Reese on August 10, 2011 at 11:11am

Jonas.  I have not read the story of Ishi. 


Sadly, I think our ancestors may have known about the connection Native peoples had to the land and that may have been part of the reason they tried to wipe them out.  Native peoples had a collectivist point of view. They didn't observe European notions like property rights.  Certainly property rights existed in their cultures but they differed hugely from what we have now.  I am thinking about Chief Seattle's speech as an example. Seattle said, "  How can you buy or sell the sky, the warmth of the land? The idea is strange to us."

Our ancestors felt they had to conquer Native peoples because they didn't feel it was right for anyone to own land outright.  It was hard for white folks to strip mine a mountain  or any other unsustainable activity unless you could first claim sole ownership of the property being trashed.  I have a feeling we are going to find in time that our current point of view will come back to bite us. 


I don't know how or if that feeds into animism.  I may have just derailed your topic.  I hope not.

Comment by Jonas Clausen on August 10, 2011 at 12:42am

OK, so naturalists aren't ONLY about running around naked in the woods, are they? Maybe we should give some recognition to the native traditions of mystical animism? Jane Goodall and her amazing work is a good example. I myself love the story of Ishi and cannot understand how my ancestors could have wiped out nation after nation of native peoples without ever noticing the connection that those people had to the land.

Comment by Jonas Clausen on January 10, 2011 at 12:46am
MikeSun, are you suggesting an outing? This could be fun!
Comment by Carl Reese on January 9, 2011 at 11:38pm

Hey mikesun.  The natural state makes to me.  I have done that a time or two.  I got mosquito bites on my balls once.  Other times I just went swimming a naturel.  That was much more satisfying. 


The saying goes, "Do as thou wilt."  If one wants to walk around naked in the woods and there isn't anybody around that objects.


Just sayin'....

Comment by MikeSun on January 9, 2011 at 11:46am

Doesn't naturalism mean that you like to enjoy nature in OUR natural state? To go hiking while wearing nothing but hiking boots?

Just sayin' ...

Comment by Carl Reese on June 21, 2010 at 3:21pm
I had a great pre solstice. I know that doesn't exist. It is supposed to be cloudy tonight so we did a solstice hike last night. My daughter and I hiked up the ski hill access road and up onto Pittman Ridge. We started our hike around 9:30. the mountains, the sky, even the very air felt a deep glow. Toward midnight of the sky looked like the end of sunset. Venus set in the northern sky. The moon was rising in the south.
Comment by MikeUtah on June 21, 2010 at 1:34pm
I had almost forgot and didn't realize the solstice was upon us already.
Comment by Jonas Clausen on June 21, 2010 at 1:24pm
Happy summer solstice everyone! Now get outside and celebrate like the good heathens you are!

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