What drives you theologically?  What are you looking for in a faith, and why are you not finding it anywhere in the LDS Church?

How do you feel about being told something was true just to find historical records that it is not?  What are yur views on the Catholic Church and the Mormon Church?

Don

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Hi Don,

I joined this group, not because I've gone from Mormonism to Catholicism, but because I went the other way around. I never did go to my RC priest/Bishop etc. and formally resign from the RCC, however, so I don't know what my standing with it would be classed as now, perhaps they would have just excommunicated me automatically upon having been baptised an LDS, even tho. I believe they don't recognise the Lds baptism as a real, christian baptism?

Since becoming LDS, and since wanting to un-become LDS, lol, I've found myself being more protective/defensive of my previous RC membership/beliefs, lol. I did used to think there were lots of similarities between the 2 faiths, but I also see so much that is different. My heart still belongs to catholicism I think, maybe it's because it was the religion I was baptised into as a baby, and continued with on and off until my 40's?

I don't really feel very proud of either religion however, the Spanish Inquisition, problems with witchcraft/hunting etc. for the RCC, and the obvious problems with J Smith/B. Young, MMM et al. for the LDS church, and more recently Prop 8 for both religions, and I'm not sure if I'm even a believer in God as such now, but spiritually I lean towards meditation via the Buddhists these days...

Sound a bit mixed up? Try living in my brain for a bit, lol :)
So very nice to have you here. No, you do not sound mixed up, but very balanced. A smart person takes the easiest road. If you are happy, then I am as well :) I did, you are, ... I applaud you. :)

Don
OK, I had to leave for a moment and am back now. I had to pick up the boss from work:)

I, too, am protective of my RC background as well. When I was on my mission so many of these guys did not have even the most basic correct understanding of the Catholic faith. These bone heads spent more time spreading rumors against the RC Church than they did teaching about the LDS Church. Many times I actually had to set them down,and humbly explain that the Hail Mary, the other prayers were not "vain repititions", but something that was supposed to be thought about. It is an instructional manual that was memorized before printing. Then, some of these more testerone(sp) driven idiots would argue with me, as if they were authoritative. Most could not even remember who their Ward Mission leader was, but they would try to....ARUG! I still get upset over the ego and lack of education.

No one is perfect. God knows I am not.

People make mistakes. no one is perfect. My heart is in Rome and the traditions and teachings. There was no freaking apostacy. That entire notion is a freakin joke. I feel bad about some things in History, but, and this is reality here... I was not there and I did not do it, I am not responsible and it is in the past. I choose to move on so that todays, when remembered, will be better.

If you want to leave the LDS Church, you can and it is not difficult. Write a letter, put a stamp on it and toss it in the mail. To be burdened by guilt, negative things, etc.... is not good. See yourself for the good person you are and be the good person you are. You define you as well as the parameters you operate within. Be a good person and watch them frown (as that is all they can do!) as you walk forward.

Pax Vobiscum,
Don

So well said...

 

Mormons turn their members into self rightreous arrogant human beings ;....  plus that idea that they can become Gods is so wrong and such an open door to abusing this position of i know better than you and the rest of it ;;;

 

Furthermore, there is no perfection in this world. We are just trying to survive, be happy and to love and, in th process, make mistakes .... full stop ..... because we are surrounded by faulty human beings ....

 

The idea is to limit the damage and the hurt ....

I feel the same. Plus religions have a tendency to satanise love for women that i makes you want to stay away from them.

I feel we all try to survive, love and be loved and, in the process, make mistakes ...... because others may hurt us or because the world we live in is not that great and love such an uncertain and unreliable thing these days.

 

I too have been disgusted by Proposition 8 .....

Intellectually, I enjoy reading certain books on evidences of the existence of God.  Currently one of my favorites is “The Ontological Argument: from St. Anselm to Contemporary Philosophers”, edited by Alvin Plantinga.  And another book on Scholastic Metaphysics.  There is a book by the Unification Church, called “Unification Theory”, that presents some interesting ideas about God.  The view of Scholastic Metaphysics is the most satisfying for me so far.

There is also a relational type of theology. Understanding God through meditation and contemplation, through prayer (and not just Dear Lord, Amen sort of prayer) and song and music.  A “Feeling” Theology as a compliment to a “Thinking” Theology.

Those are the only two I'm involved in at present.  Mormonism is like an empty water glass next to a bottle of fine wine, when it comes to providing an intellectually satisfying theology. As a Mormon myself, the emotional, relational aspect of my theology, was kindergarden level in contrast to theologies with more developed methods if meditation, more profound prayers, and deeper devotional exercises.

But that's just my single opinion, so it's sure to be easily refutably and forgettable.     

I think the mormon church is too sexist and extreme.  In this sense i much prefer the Catholic church, even though i dont agree with the pope ban on contraception and other things. At least the mormon church supports monogamy and not polygamy as the mormon church.

 

Plus as a woman, i dont want to be a submissive, subservient and obedient woman ....... i dont and never will conceive love and marriage as a contract where men have all authority and women were brought it only to be their servant and sexual slaves. I neither support the idea that women's role in life should be limited to making babies ..... some women are much happier as single than as married wives ...... especially in today's world when love is so risky and unreliable.

 

My only conception of marriage has its foundation on love, equality in the marriage, partnership mentality, mutual care and caring .... otherwise forget it ..... because it makes life hell for women ....

 

On the other hand, i have been so hurt by members of my family who are catholics and hurt me badly, same with mormons, that i stay away from both religions, mormons who are so judgmental and shuns those who dont abide even more ....

 

So even though i have some spirituality, it does not belong to any religion in particular and is a mix of wise living and a variety of influences from religions and  just common sense.

DEAR B E B,

  You, IMHO, have a very logical and appropriate approach to this.  You have a mind, you have a will and you have potential.    Nowhere are we taught to be subserviant to anyone.  Furthermore it should never be because of genetalia (male vs female) or whether some damned fool placed his hands on someones head and thinks he gaev someone something that he himself does not possess, Priesthood.  IMHO, this Priesthood idea may have come from the ancient Jews placing their hands on someones head  showing that they are familiar with this person enough to "authorize" them.  Similar to the social function of shaking hands in front of others, to have recognition of a relationship, or an "authorization.  Closer to to "Mafioso guys shaking hands and embracing" in public.  It has nothing whatsoever to do with "Godly powers".  Now, keep in mind that this is my own opinion and is not "against" anything.  I do not give Salt Lake enough credibility in this issue to take my time to be against them on it.  They are sorta like a kid running around the room with a bath towel stating that he is "Superman"...yea, wtf ever.  Just stay off the damned roof.

 

The reason that men are the clergy comes from the practice of the Jews, the leaders were men.  The men went out and hunted the Mastadons...... you can see where I am going with this.  If the women had of gone out and got killed also the world would have less population now.   Remember the emphasis and recognition of +Mother Mary (not worship) who gave birth to Jesus, who loved him, cleaned his "boo boos" and taught him his social morals and values.  He saw social injustice, he saw meaness and fought against it.  where did he get these strange ideas....  I'd say he got them from Mama.  That Mama was Mary.  No Mary, no Jesus or Christianity in general.  He would have been a Rabbai. <I can never spell that.>    Think of St. Joan of Arc.  She may have been a little on the psychosis and all with the hearing of voices, who knows?  But as a human, she taught people to push against real and not created or perceived bad influences.  The Saints were humans, they questioned at times, the fought back and pushed standing for what was right in their minds.  A great motivation  for our world and lives today.  Remember Saul of Tarsus?  What a freakin jerk he was, then he changed to be a better person.   Salt lake wants us to pray and know that we NEED them (so ~they can get ~our money), and cannot do it without them... they do tat for a selfish and self centered purpose.  We could not even freely give, they stomp their foot and command us to give or reminfd us tat if we did not give we could not get a temple reccomend, no temple attendance and thus no heaven.  Wait, in that algebraic equation I see X= (no tithing no heaven)  =hell.  If I don't give them my money I cannot go to heaven... yea, they are so full of shit.

 

Continue to believe in yourself and the potential within you.  Find and use roll modles . Just be the great you that you are.  Tell others to kiss your big toe :)   Do not be a slave to anyones ideas or crap :).

 

Don, in Las Vegas and Memphis, TN.

For a while I was bitter enough to tend towards atheism or agnosticism but it didn't feel right. Why should I try to live in a world without God because my ancestors were fooled by some degenerate who didn't want to work for a living?

My new husband is from a very devout Catholic family - but long before I was even divorced from a descendant of John Taylor I had been interested in the Catholic church. I thought I'd try the home Bible study, always considered myself somewhat of a Biblical scholar with the 50 years of Institute/BYU study - and I could not have been more mistaken.

The information I am studying is presented in a very factual manner and it absolutely demonstrates ancient knowledge constantly studied and better understood by devoted scholars. So much makes sense - the world may have taken eons for God to create all while his creations were evolving! What other religion teaches that?

I am planning to enter RCIA in fall after all I can do on my own followed by my legitimate baptism and confirmation next Easter. I help with the food bank and have indicated a desire to work with single moms, my only joy in several RS presidency callings. My husband is almost indescribable, it feels very private so I don't go into it much. Suffice it to say I am his world and he is mine. I'm not that wife he endures until he can get some better ones in the next life. I AM his life, for three years now

I have encountered scorn here for my choices, but with a lifetime of loving and confiding and absolutely knowing that God has helped me enormously through the worst times of my life (as did Mother Mary while my son served in Iraq), I do not, will not, can't even imagine giving Him up. Throughout my lifetime I've never felt He gave up on me.

It has been my personal experience that we find ourselves best in voluntary, not compelled, service to others.  If it comes from our heart, if the motions of our hands in service to others, are from the heart, we are doing well. :)  It even goes to smiling at others, making soft eye contact, opening the door and sharing good morning.  Yes, we need the sacraments of baptism and the Stations of the Cross, we need all of these things and more. When we as stated earlier, serve in a food bank, lift Christ by our actions of love and consideration we are better for it.  

  Our Catholic faith lifts us, it assists us in being the best we can be at all times.  I love it myself.  Not everything works for everyone.  But this definitely works for me.  The Catholic Church is not a museum for perfect people... it is a hospital for sinners, and I am the biggest patient :).

Don  

Ah, the sweet little gestures that we don't even realize the impact they might have on someone who is sad, or hurt or angry. My sweet mom always insisted it was the smallest things that taken together may change a life and you won't ever know it.

You know, I was shocked when I realized my baptism was not valid because the words used were "By the power vested in me by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, and through the authority of the Melchizedek Priesthood which I hold (almost as an afterthought) I baptize you in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost."

Even though the last line was appropriate, it is clear that the LDS church and its priesthood supersede the Holy Trinity in the ceremony. I had wondered so I asked Fr Luke who developed much of my home study course. The RCC does not recognize LDS baptism.

Fr Luke is going to speak at St Anthony's in Denver beginning tomorrow so I will get to hear him. I'm looking forward to Mass as well!
The LDS, to use their own argument, lack the actual Priesthood authority.  ...so does my dog and his baptism of me would carry just as much weight.  All their futile arguments aside.
In Phoenix there is a Church, St Marys Basilica  that was built back during the cowboy and Indian days.  There is a reminder of HJesus, his family and his life in the statues and the paintings.  It is deeply moving to see the life of of the people in Christs time who overcame obstacles and became a better person due to problems and issues.  I love to reflect on how others have handled issues, and all the people shown us in statues, print, songs and prayers did!  Think of Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego!  Their problem did not consume them.  They walked out a better person.
 I firmly believe that we are blessed with issues and problems.  These are not the results of sin on any level, but of being alive and human.  First we have issues, then, we have solutions.  Issues ?Problems are a good thing in that we get solutions from them.  No issues first, no solutions later!
danm, I love problems because I also love solutions! :)
Don

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