There's a flame war that has been started by Keight, aka BionicDance, within the Atheist communities on youtube. She states that there are ONLY Atheists and Theists, a binary set, nothing more. Those that claim Agnosticism are only cowards hiding behind a screen, not willing to choose either one. She also believes this, and because of this, I counted about 100 subscribers were lost to her. When I told her this, she came right back saying:


the fact is that we as a movement are losing people--or rather, there are people we SHOULD have that we don't--and it's because people don't understand, or are even AFRAID OF, the labels being thrown about. If you don't see how that is an important subject that NEEDS to be discussed I can't help you.

Apparently, Atheism is now a "movement", a sort of "Freedom Fighter Cause". Blah. More like someones finally lost it.


In any case, several people have fought back, stating that she is wrong. That there are more than two labels people use. Such as Agnosticism, Ignosticism/Igtheism, Theism, Atheism, Apatheism, and so on. So I'm asking, which category would you fit yourself under?




Agnosticism- Agnosticism is the view that the truth value of certain claims—especially claims about the existence or non-existence of any deity, but also other religious and metaphysical claims—is unknown or unknowable.


Ignosticism- Ignosticism is a theological position that the subject of debate (god or gods) has not been coherently defined, and is therefore found to be meaningless.


Theism- Theism is the belief in god or gods.


Atheism- Atheism is the disbelief, or denial, of god or gods.


Apatheism- Apatheism is the position where one does not care if there is or is not a god or gods.


Research it people, and get back to me. In the mean time, I'll be switching my label for Ignosticism, because it feels a whole lot better than Atheism, and suits me just fine.

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Another great post Don.  "I stepped in the dog crap."  "rinse the clouds of Mormonism totally out of my dirty socks,"  I love it!   

their looking for fame and to be accepted I think... but it's iritating to me too cause I know it's a fakeout and they are preying on those that are suckers for their approach it's demeaning


I think I love you! 

don in las vegas

I think your reply pretty much fits me also, good post

I like what Don had to say... It's amazing how many of us have fell for all this crap. I mean and excuse my french; what in the hell was I ever thinking to fall for this. Then I have to give credit where credit is due :)  It's only fair too. Well first thing is they conv. change policy whenever their BS won't fly with the laws or science  anymore and then refuse to teach it. That keeps all the future members in ignorance, and another reason for me and for many others IMO is  I have been taught since before I could speak or walk, these indoctrinations. I mean I literally had to sit through all those long ass 2 hour conferences and go to all these brainwashing meetings as a baby against my will (literally) with no hope of a normal childhood; get whipped or scolded if I didn't sit still and take it and as a teenager I totally rebelled and utterly refused to go so I got shunned, thrown out of the house for my ill behavior, they actually took me to the sheriff's office and ask the sheriff to put me in a boys home or some detention center that I wouldn't mind, he listened then laughed at them and stated I wasn't a candidate, like that's the solution for a child, esp from  a loving family? Then they wonder what the hell is wrong with me. Y can't I be normal act right, God is watching and one day you will pay.. OK, think for a second, after those harsh words and all this crap and all the guilt how was I supposed to act? I was acting normal IMO for a 15 year old, raised by a bunch of self righteous religeous fanatics... I mean pretty much it's all show, we would all argue on sunday morning to hurry up come on RIGHT NOW threats, ill language maybe even a belt (this is regular sun morning happenings) then go to church and walk in like a normal loving happy well acheived family :) Because btw my dad was the Bishop and all had to be perfect...(people were watching)  It's all about Pride which stems from fear, the delusion of not getting what we want or getting what we don't want. Have to have that control, make it happen, insecurity, LDS inc. loves us to be dependent so we wont think for ourselves and go anywhere. A very skillfull business strategy (if you're heartless). My point really is, is it any wonder that I don't believe in GOD? I got to the point where when someone ask don't you care about being with HF and your family forever and making worlds and billions of spirits? I just say to myself, in all sincerity, "it's the very last thing I want anymore, it sounds utterly disappointing to spend eternity that way I think " I mean I love my family but by all means I don't want to be tied down to them or  ANYONE for zillions of eons!!! WTF that's nuts!  I just want peace of mind :) I'm not greedy!  Wes...

I think this choice is perhaps not thought through completely. I consider myself an evidentialist. I will accept propositions that can be shown to be reasonably true from evidence.  

I am happy to believe in a god or in other spiritual realities that can be shown to have a basis in evidence. 

I continue to seek compelling evidence of a god from believers and also from agnostics without success.  

I also continue to run into people who consider atheism to be an argued position that is equal and opposite to theism, and who think that people "choose" atheism like they would choose a theistic position or religion and merely collect arguments that support it.  Perhaps there are atheists of this stripe, but this view is erroneous.

The vast majority of atheists IMO are merely reduced to the position that is supported by the overwhelming body of evidence.  Its not personal.  Its not another crusade to convert people to another belief system.

It is tiresome, however, to listen to the incredibly poorly reasoned arguments of most believers without eventually responding in some way, or at least asking annoying questions.  Believers seem to be almost universally unhappy to be confronted about beliefs that cannot be demonstrated by evidence. 


I am an Athiest. There may be no evidence to prove or disprove a god but their is a tonof evedence that the writings about a god/s is written by man without aany divine help.


I would have to be apatheistic because i dont care if there is a god or not. I dont care what other people think, but to me it is pointless. If you can be labeled two things, i would also go for ignostic, because it is impossible for me to argue all religious beliefs because they are so varied. 

Brain Mapping non religeous way to heal, is helping me and believe me I need it now...

This is great.  we can be polite, caring posters with a group of people that may (and probably do as we are individuals)  have their own points of views and we are respectful.  


IMHO, the way to be is "happy".  Live our life without some jerk off in a suit telling you that you are wrong for anything.  Granted, it is not good to be an anarchist that fights any and all authority.  However, We have the right as individuals to be what we want to be.  Imagine being a teenager, bursting with testeron and hormones and thinking that looking at another person (irregardless of preference)  and just wanting to bang them and thinking that it is wrong.  Masterbation is wrong, wanting to have sex is wrong....  OMG, it would have to be torturous.  

If there is a God, he love us and understands.  If there is not a God, I lived my life and didn't hurt anyone and I was happy.  Put me in a potato bag and toss me in the dirt.  

Religion is cool if it lifts you. Without us religion would serve no purpose as there would be no one to beat the shit out of..  Mormonism is a pressure cooker and it sucks.  You are never good enough or do good enough.  I am glad I left, if you have not done so, please do so.  It is not bad at all! :)



I feel we create our problems.. I personally don't believe they are given to us for the simple fact of there is no inherent giver just laws of causation like in physics but I certainly can go with we need to develop skills to deal with them...wait for evolution to open our minds? that could take eons... BTW, I thought LDS inc. was against symbolic worship so what's up with the Joe statue? I would rather look at Jesus atleast I agree with some of what I have read that he taught... just thoughts

Hi Wes,

  Perhaps i need to communicate better at times.  I stated that it was church (Catholic), not LDS :).  any of us are from other theological disciplines.  I am happily returned to my Catholic faith. :)



The Saint Joseph Statue is a statue erected to remind us of the guy that raised Jesus, Joseph.  Not that bonehead Joseph Smith. :)   Catholics do not worship hunks of rock with some dude or lady carved out.  iI  is tho, a focal point.  I had to deal with Missionary Companions that just "knew" they were worshiping the statue.  They were idiots and very deliberately missinformed. 


perhaps I should restate the "problems are given to us" part.  We "have" them and it is just part of life. Without the problems we do not like or want we do not learn properly the deep skills of the heart and mind to create from that shit, our successes.  What does not break us, makes us. :)   How we respond to the issue is what creates a success or failure.  We do drugs, we have mental, social, sexual addictions and can grow up as a person from there.  No guilt, no blame, just success.  Upward and onward.  Sometimes when we are down, there is nowhere else left...but up! :)  So, we grow. :)   Rough neighborhoods breed the best fighters and the best of everything as well :)  We do BETTER OF DIE.


Sometimes theology so clouds our minds and perceptions of right/wrong that we use that it...cannot be used!  Sometimes, religion is the problem.


I hope that clarifies it. :)  ...just my humble opinion with respect to views to the contrary. :)


I enjoyed your response Wess. :)


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