Wow!. Where to begin,... I'll start by saying that I do believe that some form of euthanasia should be permitted in extreme medical cases and that doctors, patients and their family members should be able to petiton for their loved ones if the need should arrive without criminal backlash. But because there are sinister people in the world that would take advantage. I think the situation should be regulated and reviewed by third parties that can look at each situation objectively to prevent someone from commiting actual murder.
Now, in regards to an individual taking their own life,... In July it will be the third anniversay since my brother took his life. It was the 2nd time. His first attempt as a teenager was thwarted by my grandmother. He was finally successsful at age 39.
My brother started out a sweet soul, he was the families little peacemaker, and protector of his younger brothers and sisters and had so much talent and potential, but he also had a very dark side, that when he allowed it to take him over would block out the sun. He made dreadful mistakes that literally ruined his life. He was in jail for serveral years for selling drugs. He became very addicted to cocaine and I think Meth at the end. After he got out of jail he tried and was successful at turning his life around for a time, but in the end the darkness took over and he lost everything again,... He was dark and contolling over his wife and kids and everyone around him. He was not a good husband,.. his backwards thinking prevented him from being a good father all though he loved his children very much. But in spite of his darkness and weakness he could suddenly be very charming and kind and do selfless things for others. From what I can piece together, he decided to take his life when he got cancer again. He had no more health insurance and refused treatment. He got very sick, was bed ridden for about a month. He left one night and didn't return. The police found him in his car 2 days later with an empty bottle of pills and a plastic bag over his head. Sorry to be so graphic, but that's what it is. I was not close with my brother at the end. He had long cut himself off from me or anybody that would have tried to help him and threatend his wife and kids to prevent them from contacting me.
Since we don't really know what happens after we die, has his suffering ended? I don't know. Maybe it continues unresolved... or maybe it all just ends,... Were my brothers wife and kids better off without him around? Some would argue that they were. My sister in law, became a stronger person, she found out she could take care of herself and her kids better than she thought. The darkness that was over the house was gone and lifted. My sister in law found a new man to love, something she never thought would happen. My brother left them with no money, but he also, left them with out crushing medical debt and bills, the house and car were paid for, if he lived to fight the cancer they would have had to get a loan against the house to pay for it. maybe thisos what motivated his final act.
But,.. We have no idea what the future brings. For instance, if he had waited a few weeks he may have been around to prevent a tradgedy that occurred involving his step son that resulted in an accidental shooting death of his friend. My nephew is now in prison for 10 years. My brother may have been around to do something that may have prevented that tragic loss for the parents of that young man who died, who are suffering so much now. If he had decided to stick it out a while longer, maybe he would have prevented a child from being hit by a car or something about his medical case may have helped doctors find a cure to help someone else. I know that sounds far fetched, but stranger things have happend.
So I think I ask now, Is it only our decision? Are we in fact only responsible for ourselves. Disconnected from others and are all relationships delusional, and co dependent or are we, whether we like it or not, completly connected and dependent on others and others on us. Even those we don't know.
Do we have the moral right to remove ourselves without regards to the consequences, any more than we have the right to remove others from this world. I'm heart broken to think of the pain my brother must have felt, I didn't want him to suffer. I wold give almost anything now to have been there in his last moments to prevent him from doing this. But maybe I had no right to interfere. As I mentioned earlier maybe in long run everyone is better off.
The problem is we don't know,... is it better to live and see? Choose life? I too have suffered and felt there was no way out, and been disappointed, but so many things came out well for me that were completely unexpected. That is the way life is... We are all going to die eventually. Can't avoid it. But is it the wise thing to hasten it? Is is moral? Is it really what is best for us and for others? I don't have the answers just some thoughts and questions... is it selfish for us to to ask others to stay and choose to find a way to make themselves happy or it selfish to leave and expect others to deal with it. Does death take away all responsibility. ???
I'm a little troubled and perplexed by your calling me and the moderators a "Triad". For one, there are four of us (me, Don, MM, & Truth). Two, you use it in such a way as to appear mocking or degrading. We aren't an elitist group mingling among the dross. We are members of LAM, same as anybody. I don't see myself in any sort of position of status, power, popularity or control over anyone else. I merely fill the role of owner and governor of LAM, but do not take that roll seriously enough for it to go to my head nor to wield authority in such a way as to subjugate others.
Also, you assume much to think TruthR has the support of everyone else on LAM. Not that she doesn't deserve it, but personality differences among other factors often pit many a member against us as moderators rather than in line with us as you presume. Our task is often a thankless job and is accompanied by much more behind the scenes deliberation, consulting and stress than many a member would care to put up with nor dedicate so much voluntary time to. I'm not suggesting we demand nor deserve respect, but a little gratitude or compassion is appreciated from time to time.
As for suicide being discussed in your "Unreachable Bar" thread, it was Astro Logic who discussed it there first, who was also the source of your original reference and post in the first place. Truth may have added some of her own thoughts and perhaps took them beyond your desired interest in that thread, but that is the nature of forum discussions at times and it seems unfair (in my observation and estimation) to project your frustration of said tangent being discussed by those with whom it strikes a sensitive nerve due to their own personal battles with it. Perhaps more attempts at understanding rather than dismissing would bring about a more desirable resolution.
As always, thanks for sharing your experience,
I think you falsely assume that I read or know of every conversation or thread that occurs on LAM. Chat logs are not stored and get cleared of all remaining post each night. I have no idea what conversation with Nathan you are talking about and how it relates to anything that has been brought up so far. If you wish to take issue further with me as the manager/owner, or any of my moderator volunteers, please do so in a private message so as not distract further from this topic or defame any of us further. I will gladly review any forum posts that you can point me to, to prove your case. If anyone else has questions or concerns about the moderating and management of LAM, my door is open.
I don't feel that there is a need to be sorry. In the issue of suicide we are dealing with a far more important issue, we are dealing with a person, a falable human. Sometimes these humans need the understanding and love that just does not make it with a all to brief and to the point email.
I value humans and their life experience :), above aaaaaaaall things. :)
I feel you are a good person, of great value and I enjoy our good relationship. I feel, my view here, that you are a good person, and you are of immense value where and as you are. Truth, you determine your value, your validations and what makes you tick. I like you and enjoy sharing with you.
The hardest thing we do, and we all have experience in this, is to take it day by day :)