Here's one, Families are Forever.

Ok, so you get married, you have little children and of course, you want to be together forever. If you loose a child you would desperately cling to that belief and hope like the dickens it was true. But you also grew up in a family and when you were little you wanted to be with them FOREVER, (if it was a fairly healthy family) but then you grew up and left. You couldn't wait to get outta' there and get on with your life! So, in the Hereafter, who's family are you with forever? Your childhood family? The family you've made by getting married?

You've outgrown your family, and the children you have now will outgrow you and will most likely have children of their own. And on and on and on. So, who's hanging out with who???

Not to mention all those people who can't stand their mother, or their father, or thier cousin, or Uncle Bill, or you name it! WHO WANTS TO BE TOGETHER FOREVER???

Ok...just wondering why I never heard anyone in church think thru this one. I just heard the cliche' over and over again and see it commercialized on signs and posters and plastic you can peel and put on the wall of your family room.

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hhhmmm, last time I tried to reply to you, it said I couldn't unless I asked to friend you. I did, but that didn't make sense. Looks like this time it will let me. Any other mo cliche's we can deconstruct?

Here's one," Kicking against the pricks"  I get the image of someone who is unhappy about some rule in the church, so they kick against a cactus, and a cactus has pricks in it that sting and stick and hurt. 

So, basically the cliche' is, "If you don't like our rules, we will hurt you back? If you kick against us, we will make your life hell? Kick all you want, it will only hurt you and in the end you will stop, because we will have mildly tortured you enough that you will give up, because after all we are bigger than you?"

You have a beef with the gospel and so you are "kicking against the pricks". or could it be more literal, most of the church rules are made up by men, we're kicking against pricks who made this all up? 

At any rate, the cliche' could be meant to demean the kicker, make them feel even more powerless. "We have the power, you don't, so if you buck the system, you won't get anywhere but to just hurt yourself. " 


Us power! You, no power! It's useless, it's fruitless, give up, don't go near that briar patch. 

LOL, yes to the 2nd paragraph. I didn't understand that 1st paragraph. 

When I was really seriously contemplating leaving the church, my father died. Infact, I had stopped going, but I was weighing and measuring and had a heavy heart about it all. I dreamed my father came to me and he asked me, "Are these really the type of people you want to hang with for the eternity's?" And I was in a heavenly celestial room type of place with alot of serious conservative mormons and for me it was really boring. Like we were waiting to get start living, but never getting there. Then it switched. I was in a classroom with a bunch of non lds people who were joking and laughing and cutting up. We were having a blast. And I thought, "These are my kind of people!" And then my Dad came back and said, "See, water seeks it's own level." And this helped me see who I was better in relation to all the yucky rules and regulations and conservatism, that was not me. And I became a little more comfortable with thinking about leaving. It was a long road out, but I got there. 

The dream kind of surprised me because my Dad was active lds. Now I could've interpreted this as the devil was taking the form of my Dad, but it didn't feel that way. It felt like the true love and care he has for me and the way he really knows me better than I knew myself at the time, came through. 

I've actually had this very same thought before.  When you play out all the possibilities it really is ridiculous. For instance, lets say everything goes according to plan, everyone in your whole family gets along, and is faithful and gets to the celestial kingdom. The belief is that you will get a planet, not just a planet actually, but a whole universe if I'm right in assuming that the LDS still believe their God is the god of the universe not just this planet.

So you have a universe with you're spouse and your parents have one of their own, and your in-laws do and all your siblings and your children.  All of you Gods, all with their own universes. So the question is when are you ever going to be together?   They make it sound like you'll have one big celestial house with all your family living together but it just doesn't make any sense.  Now you could argue that there is a shift in space/ time that makes distance not an issue but for a religion that goes to so much trouble to explain things and claims to have the answers that people seek to use the "it's a mystery" excuse is just lame. 

Once I started thinking critically about the details of mormon belief, none of it made any sense anymore.  I wondered how I had not seen it before. 

Well put Cary.  I've never thought of it that deeply before.  Thanks.

Hi Carry, We don't see it because of all these cliche's everyone says all the time. Brainwashing little cliche's here and there, that we all nod our heads in agreement with, like we have this cliche' in common, never mind what it means, really. 

Now about the other planets, as a woman you get there and wahlaa! Your husband starts picking up other wives, more and more, and more and more. I don't like that version of eternity, uh uh, I'm not liking that story one bit! 

cliche's.....there are so many....but one I still use and like is "This too will pass" ha ha!

As I get older, I too like that one. You've cycled through life's experiences so many times that you realize it is so. The ups will go down, the bad times will solve themselves, until you die. 

In the church I found that phrase was used at times to pacify us when we were questioning and kicking against the pricks. (interesting turn of phrase, since the rule makers were mostly male)  Hey, I think I'll deconstruct that phrase...

"regular marriage is until death you do part....a temple marriage is for time and eternity"...never did get around to doing the time and eternity part  not even in all of the 26 year membership

I sometimes think that this made my transition "out of it all" just that bit easier.

ya, you hadn't made all those sacred covenants complete with the punishments of disembowelment. Not that any one really does that anymore. 

which makes me wonder....those that DID make all those 'sacred' covenants...once they no longer believe all the stuff of the church, having left, - do they still secretly (no pun intended) have a fear of what they covenanted once?

Enlightened, I'm happy to say I have no fear of the BS being true anymore.


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