Suiside epidemic in utah:
I am a mormon raised by a New York vietnam vet he was converted at18 and byu grad after war he married my mom a byu grad and raised in utah moved from mousori at 12.  I can be blunt and outward but know the "Mormon GUILT" my brother tought me to masterbate and to feel guilty for it at 2yrs old i tried to commit suiside at 2yrs old because i was told that if i die before 8 the "age of acountability" and the age us mormons make an "eternal commitment to God" to be "good", that if i die before 8 i will for sure go to heaven. I broke a glass jar and stabed myself in the leg not knowing how to die but the pain was real. I tried again at 18. And i still think about it and try not to do it. I have read that masterbation is so natural un born children have been caught in ultrasounds doing it. Im no longer active because of the guilt i have of not able to live all the "comandments of God" in witch if you are found not living "all" of these laws you will be "excumunicated" witch is like being cast out emotionaly.

Basicly it can be sumed up to this:

-GUILT is the opposite of forgiving yourself.  (not forgiving is the greater sin we are tought)
-Feeling sorry for your sins (feeling guilty happens if you do the sin again after repenting) is the first step for repentace we are tought.
-As i hope you can all see this makes for depression or turning "FAKE" if you want to cope with your "sin"
-but i came to realise "SIN" is only sin because of "progression" if you set that progression goal out of reach and people fail and try not to be hypocrites they fall in these pit falls.
-basicly sin is when you stop progessing or you stop someone elses progression. 
-you dont progress when your focusing on feeling sorry and then guilty. So that is sin too. Now your realy evil huh?

If you want your kids well adjusted you must be honest with them and not surgar coat how to deal with life. If you never use your hands for hard work you will not build calluses. Same with your soul you must get to a point where when your bubble pops you dont pop with it. Dealing with loss is key. 

I do belive that if a person chooses to die that they have that right. I mean who can stop you, you learn quick to put on a happy face and die inside. Then get around to living a better life or killing yourself depending on how well you can live.

Will i someday kill myself? Maybe, maybe not, thats not the point the point is the "GUILT" we put on eachother / ourselves. 

We are told to be perfect but i came to realise that perfection is doing all that is expected and to have realalistic expectations you must see that nature dictates what you can or cannot do. You cant go against the laws of physics.

So answer this question and you will be closer to the soulution.
-How do you get rid of guilt and live a happy life?

Omnes viae ad mortem

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Hello and welcome Grumalt.  Thanks for sharing your story and experience.  That's some heavy shit you were dealt at such a young age!  Glad you've distanced yourself from the guilt inducing practices of Mormonism.  It's no wonder Utah leads the nation in both depression and anxiety prescriptions and teen suicides.

To answer your question at the end, for myself anyways, the guilt mostly disappeared when I realized it was all a fraud and unsupported by evidence, psychology and science.  Masturbation is totally natural and healthy.  Those who would use it as a manipulation tool through induced guilt are the real sinners.  I hope you continue to heal as you overcome the guilt indoctrination of Mormonism.

Help me a bit....

 You shared that you tried to kill ourself at 2 years old?? ...you tried to OD on Gerbers??   How is that even possible??  Your brother taught you to masturbate at two??  This is not normal or even possible in my mind.  

 

I speak (eh), read and write as well as teach Latin to my clergy, so I understand what you are trying to say in your attempt at Latin.  The puzzel pieces do not fit.

 

I see some "non sequiturs" here.  In a logical and pragmatic fashion, share with me and others what is up please.  It just does not feel as it should :).

 

Non omnis moriar, Malus consilium quod mutari non potest, 

Don

 

Don

Sounds like youre in prison and we have all been there.The good news is you can get out without doing life and without making this exp erience a living hell.you and only you create your heaven or hell and its not after death,its now.Death wont fix anything besides cause pain and regret.Self forgiveness is a huge problem because they make you feel like shit and we feed off the fear and it makes life unbarable.Ive discovered a way by learning from all belief systems that will help you forgive yourself for whatever you might think is wrong.First realize there is no right or wrong,and second you have to get to the point where you dont care what others think and follow your own heart.So if you want to help yourself get some mandala beads and say a forgiveness affirmation for every bead like the catholics do.Agree with yourself that when youre done you will have forgiven yourself and forgive yourself and accept it as a way to put positve energy into your mind.Sin is a distorted word.Its an archery term for missing the mark.Nobody perfect.Everyone misses the mark and realize that if you  keep trying you will do better next time.Its all mental.morals and rules are for controling the masses,if fear wasnt part of religion then they would have no followers.Live the life that you would love to have.Many have found freedom.think for yourself and dont worry about pleasing anyone,its your life to experience all the ups and downs thats what makes us strong strong.Good luck and dont give up.

It is horrible that suicide, teen pregnancy, and spousal and child abuse rates are so high among people who preach against these things.  Most of my relatives live in Utah, 6 of them committed suicide, one of them killed her child and herself, there was some level of abuse in about 1/2 to 2/3 of their families.  I would not say that any of them understood their religious beliefs.  But I do know they were all suffering, and I can't say what the church did for them, but for the most part I think they suffered silently, because they thought others would judge them.  I don't know what they believed God thought of them, but I can't imagine that they felt accepted, protected, or loved.  It was wrong for people to think that suicide was a sin, when it is so clearly an expression of suffering.  But who among those people who were in their own church were strong enough to listen and accept their suffering as it was, without trying to belittle or diminish their pain.  Something was not right in their world, and they were not helped by those who might have helped thm.

 

You make an excellent point in an eloquent post.  Mormonism is agrowth that causes many many problems.  People will say that JS was a prophet even if JS himself said he was not.    My point in that statement is that people suspend objective reason!  They forget how to think and just  go lethargic! and believe anything.  What a psychosis this is!  

  Salt lake does not given one damn about other people or their members.  People say that suicide is a sin, and I disagree with them.  What, IMHO, is a sin, is the inability of people to reach out to another person that is in pain and disoriented as a person.  There is a lot of misguiding going on.  I have seen missionaries tell other missionaries that they will be a GA by the time they are 30, ...and the dumb kid believes it and fully expects it.  Then, reality sits in and it does not happen.  Missionaries are cannon fodder.  

 

If Mormons would just reach out to their own members they might gain a modicum of respect in my eyes.  People are ground up and spit out.  I have no respect for the LDS Church Leaders, anywhere as they know what they do.  People are the most important thing.

 

Don

 

I can't make such general statements, about church leaders, I have known some that were kind and ethical, not just superficial drones.  People can be either in any situation.  But I do know that as a mormon I felt the system of home and visiting teaching distanced me from feeling that I was doing good.  It did not feel like I was giving freely and from my heart when I had a monthly quota.  Upon leaving I spent my time volunteering with support groups for those who were depressed and suicidal, and I saw more compassion among them than I saw in many members of the church even though they themselves were suffering.  I saw too many in the church try to avoid the hard issues, turn a blind eye, many, but not all.  There were good people there, but I don't think it was the religion that made them that way.  People are what they are and then what they choose to be in any religion or lack thereof.

Grumalt, As a guilt-ridden comrade-in-arms from the trenches of Tryingtobeperfect, may I say I think I have felt something similar your anguish. I began beating myself up daily, all day, starting when I was old enough to understand that others' disapproval meant I was bad. Then one day a few years ago, while I was trying desperately to save my marriage (by perfecting myself, of course), I came across a book that changed my life. It is called Loving What Is and it is written by Byron Katie (a female). At first, I was so far down and so deeply rooted in Mormon self-flagellation I couldn't even begin to understand what she was telling me, but somehow I knew it was my answer, so I refused to give up until I could understand. About the fifth time through the book a small light began to flicker.

Here are a few gems that still make me weep with relief: "A thought is harmless unless we believe it." "No one can possibly know what someone else (or even you, yourself) should do. If you think you know what ANYONE should do, welcome to hell." "Do you want to meet the love of your life? Look in the mirror." "The truth is no respecter of spiritual concepts." "You can't make a mistake. Everything is for your homecoming." "There's no sadness without believing a story that opposes reality." "Everyone is always doing the absolute best they know how at that moment." "No one is smart enough to judge another (even ourselves)."

 

Aren't they wonderful? So simple and yet so deep. If my heart can know these ideas are true, surely God knows it, too. He/she knows I am making mistakes all over the place and that it's the best I know right now. Maybe saying all this to you is a mistake, but here it is, warts and all, and I do sincerely offer it in friendship. Nell 

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