My husband continues to attend church without me and serves faithfully as the stake executive secretary, so by all outward appearances he is as true blue as ever.  But at home I have noticed changes since I announced to him that I no longer believe in the church.  He swears more.  He also immediately began watching R-rated movies, even soft porn.  I see these as good signs that his faith does not run as deep as it might appear to some.  Any thoughts out there?  Am I wrong to get my hopes up?

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Considering that I never swore at all until I left the church, nor openly looked at porn with my wife's knowledge, this seems like a good step towards the slippery slope.  Maybe you can help spur his disaffiliation by inviting him to go to the movies on Sundays, during church even, or other non-LDS activities such as checking out a bar, or strip club.  Hopefully his belief and facade is cracking either way.

Which brings up another question I have.  How do healthy people regard pornography?  I have known only the Boyd K. Packer attitude for so long that I don't know what to think.  

I don't know if you were kidding about the bar or strip club.  We are soooo far from that.  I am just hoping for a good skeptical agnosticism.  And I'm looking for the authentic guy who did not even own a suit when I met him, let alone played the part of one.  

Thanks for the encouragement.  It's good to know someone out there is thinking of us.

Understanding that porn isn't about you, and is primarily about our (men's) need to release and find porn a wonderful stimulating fantasy, you realize there's likely no reason to be bothered by it.  The church blames porn for all sorts of social ills but those claims aren't backed up by professional psychology.  My wife couldn't care less that I look at porn and has even been requesting to watch it with my lately, which helps us both get in the mood more often, which is always a good thing.  I hope that helps.  Good luck!

Thank you, Mikeutah.  That's pretty much the conclusion I was reaching.  I only wish  I hadn't been so stupid in my reactions to my three sons' explorations.  I have apologized, and I know I can't go back, but I wish I could.  They have been wonderfully forgiving.

Stupid BKP nonsense.  Stupid me for being a robot.

I'm trying to write one more sentence here, but now everything sounds like a double entendre. ;o)  Let's just say, I am going to use this knowledge to strengthen our spousal relationship. Thanks again.


(P.S.  I meant to post this all in the new forum, but messed up somehow.  Sorry about that.)

I can only answer for myself so..... if I were in your position I would say that I would not be happy or like to see MY husband swearing more or watching R-rated movies and soft porn, etc., as a "prize" for getting my hopes up that he is "cracking" in his TBM beliefs. I would be asking myself where would this type of behaviour lead to ----exttra marital affairs as being acceptable just to mention one? 

I'm getting the feeling that leaving TSCC means one must experience all those things which were taboo as a member but doing so in excess just to prove a point.

Is it so wrong to leave TSCC and continue living a life that takes the good out of one's membership - that which gave one security and happiness and discard the rubbish - like the doctrine?

So to answer your question IMHO Mending - No, I do NOT see his behaviour as good signs - period.

Replacing one destructive behaviour with another does not do it in my book.

I wish you well.


Since when has viewing R rated movies, swearing (they are just words), and viewing soft port (or porn) become a destructive behavior?  Are any of these choices hurting others (only if they choose to be offended)?  That may be one opinion, but it is not backed up by psychology studies.  Yes, some people that do harmful things to others (or themselves) also look at porn, also swear or also watch rated R movies, but that doesn't make those things the cause of their bad behavior.  Just trying to see a different perspective and opinion in this regard.

That is what I assumed this site was all about - opinions of various people about various subjects as people who are living LAM.

I do not lay any claim to be able to quote psychology studies - I base MY opinions on life experiences and of those I know. I respect your opinion (as I hope you do mine) - having said that I would not like to be counted amongst those who condone R rated movies, swearing or porn and that is why I felt I needed to give MY opinion on the subject. I hope it did not come across any other way because I try to steer clear of being judgemental. Tx 4 the reply.

Ok, thanks for the clarification.  I took your previous post to sound condescending which is why I sparked back so.  Not condoning those choices for yourself is much easier for me to swallow.  Thanks.

Thanks for responding, Miss Piggy.  Personally, I choose my movies very carefully and watch only R-rated which are critically acclaimed, and very few of those.  I don't swear, either, nor do I have any interest in porn for myself.  This is how I was before converting to the church at age 19 and how I believe I will continue to be without the church.

My husband, however, comes from a different background than mine.  When he converted at age 22 he gave up much of his authentic self to put on a suit every week and act like a proper gentleman.  But he has always been a good-hearted person.  Women love him, and I had to learn years ago to trust him.  I don't fear him cheating on me. All that happened with the "soft porn" is that he started a movie on Netflix and quickly turned it off again when he realized how stupid it was.  I was just surprised by his choice because it had a one star rating and was obviously all about sex.

If he started to drink alcohol, yes, I might be worried, as we have alcoholics and drug addicts in both our families.  But swearing and a more free approach to sex, I see these as good signs.

I do understand where you are coming from, though.  If I did not have a bunch of kids whom I love who are more like their father than like me in some ways, I would probably be right where you are in my opinions.  Thanks for sharing.

Thanks Mending - appreciate the reply - best wishes in your journey.


i would say your answer lies in his motives for his actions - and you know your husband best.

if these are things he's always wanted to do, but felt restrained by the church, then i'd say he's starting to look at the institution more critically, thinking for himself, and living his life the way he wants to.  find out what else he's always wanted to do.

if he's never wanted to do these things before, it could be because of "cracking" and he's trying to test the rules (gain a testimony by doing the opposite just to see what happens).  he'll need a lot of support to not feel guilt about what he's doing.  it's imperative that he feels positive emotion when experimenting.

if he's never wanted to do these, and isn't questioning the church, it could be a self-destructive cycle as miss piggy has alluded to.  the "screw it" mentality leads to acting out, which induces guilt and shame (because we're hard wired to feel guilt about R-rated movies....), which leads to more acting out, which ends up in deep-rooted self-loathing.

probably what's best is to just be there for him and support his decisions - even if it means he stops and goes back to how he was.

Your response strikes me as very wise.  Thank you, russj117.


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