I'm new here. This is my first post, ty for allowing me membership nice to read your hopefull, comments as well. I have  a real problem. When I left mormonism, I mean finally took my name off records with Salt Lake, well my recently baptised 8 y/o daughter who is my only child is true blue LDS. I tought her like a good mormon would All my family is LDS all active and she has been going to church with them since I left. She has had regular scripture study, FHE, and WED nites at church all along. She doesn't know anything yet except that I don't go anymore. What in the world do I do? I'm really stumped! On one hand if I keep her from going tell her I realized the truth about it then maybe she will have issues of anger, trust who knows. She has friends there. She really likes going. Would she even understand now? But on the other hand, the longer this cult has the claws in the more stuck she will be later. I know I was there. Her mother is gone and doesn't see her so there is no help there. I have been trying to decide whats best for months. Of course all my family says don't confuse her, she likes it, but they all are LDS and think I'm wrong anyhow so I don't know where to turn for an answer. So afraid of hurting her. It seems to me either way has its neg effects. Any comments would be greatly appreciated. Thanks....Wes   

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Hello Wes.  Good to hear from you.  In regards to the mom, is she "gone" as in deceased, or "gone" as in, no longer a part of her life?  Either way sounds tough at such a young age.  I would look at this from the perspective of long term effects and instilling honesty and integrity, as well as being true to yourself.  I personally think it would hurt much less and for less time to find out at 8 that it's all a fraud, vs finding out after being married in the temple with her own kids under her wings, though there's no guarantee she would ever leave later in life.  Since you're not in Utah, she likely has ample opportunity to make friends outside of Mormonism and be free.  Even in Utah, my kids seem to do alright in having friends both in and out of Mormonism, also get along well with their Mormon cousins, and my oldest is 9.  For yourself, do you feel comfortable remaining silent as your daughter is indoctrinated into a potentially harmful belief system?  I'm not judging either way, just posing questions that might help you look at your position from outside your box.  If you're fine with your daughter choosing her own path and discovering or not, the fraud of Mormonism on her own, that's an acceptable path as well in my book.  Good luck, and please keep in touch on how things pan out.
Thanks guys wonderfull insight. Appreciate it. Don't take it the wrong way MM but its relief to me that I'm not the only one I know now facing this and no Mike I don't feel comfortable letting this go on without saying anything. I'm going to consider these things ty much... The real battle here is going to be with the rest of my family. They now are, without any surprise to me,  more than ever watching over her, feeding her indoctrination. Hope it doesn't come down to a move. They r really taken by it all, totally feel I didn't live right enough so I lost my testimony yada yada yada. I'll take it a day at a time what else do I have
If you have a problem with them pushing doctrine or church reinforcement onto your daughter, especially if/when you decide to open up to her about your beliefs and the fraud of Mormonism, that is definitely a boundary that you need to establish with them and let them know you will not stand for it, especially if there's any negative connotations about you being evil, unrighteous, or unworthy.  I would not stand for my children being turned against me.
lol i put that same link on my facebook page just this morning before i saw this. cool.... thank you, im going slow but remember what u told me earlier, im her father im her salvation so to speak and i do see her give me a different respect than the other family thankfully :)
TY Bar Kockhba, and TY every1, that makes a lot of sense as well Alot of diverse perspectives thats great. Gives me alot to consider. This is why I've been hesitating. wanting to see how others would handle it and I think all here are right just a matter of perspective. I've been ill but i am recovering now so I am bol. Me and my daughter are doing our own little things slowly, for instance theres no way to keep my mom from her soul saving quest of Elisabeth it's imposible to her, seeing I have "given up" on righteousness..and my ex wife isn't even mormon or around so of course they are taught as we all know that it's the grandparents responsibility also. So she likes to go to church  fine  i let her go dont say anything neg ask how it went, but we meditate each night and morning as well now which she already knew how to do to my surprise! lol it was so cute the first time she sat on the floor with her little pillow under her crossed her legs and did the chi thingy with the palms up and fingers making the circle :) She has a eastern friend that tought her already at school.we have fun absolutely no pushing of her to do it. It's our time and she likes that! It falls along with my beliefs but that isn't the real point tho.. My only desire here is not for her to follow my way <but> to be able to find the strength later on to find her own ways without total zombie like adherance to the LDS Dogma. Because it is just that even if it does have alot of good the bad in my opinion out weighs it because of the pure fraudulance of it and guilt trips to get one to follow.  of course all in the name of the good lord! That's the biggest thing about it no one dares use their mind to question any peculiar and sometimes flat out lies. there must be a reason no matter what they say cause its true. Only my opinion- worth what it cost ya,nothin'  peace out.... Wes

You might want to look into a good solid girl scout troop.  Go to the Girl Scout Council in your area and ask them which troops are getting rave reviews.  Unlike the church, you can go to a troop that is not necessarily geographically correct but socially a great match.  It's ok to do that kind of thing in normal world.

Also, what is your daughter's interest at age 8?  Mine liked theater, so we got involved with community theater. Some kids love sports.    Google 'meet-up' and see what meetups are out there for kids. 




I  left after my kids were growen, To day i have 1 TBM.,1 tbm, 1 tbm? and 1 atheist like my self. Kids need to learn that Santa is only make believe. Maybe you can do a double hitter? Just tell them the truth when she asks questions. Their are other organizations like girl guides, karate, gymnastics, music, art classes etc. She may like one of those,


I like the idea of introducing the stories of other religious Gods to help her understand there are other ways of believing. Also, if you want to get her away from the family rallying under the idea that "it is her choice, so we are doing what SHE wants to do" all the while they are telling her what is true, bearing testimony, repeating primary hymns to her etc etc I would suggest an easy fix for this: take her to a few local churches and see what weekday activities she might enjoy. Maybe she will make friends. At some point she might have so much fun that you can say, "Would you like to go to their church on Sunday with me?" And then the death grip of your family members will no longer apply because it is HER decision to go to a different church with her new friends. Just an idea, you could try a few churches, maybe every second week or so and if she has enough fun then she might want to go to the other churches. As she gets older she will likely get bored of church all together and stop going. You could also go to sacrament meeting with your daughter and skip the rest of church so that she will get bored and no longer want to go. This also allows you to have control/knowledge of what is being said to her on Sundays. Anyway, just my two cents, take it or leave it!
A lot of 8 year olds LOVE music.  See if you can get a copy of the Tony award winning musical, "Book of Mormon"  Betcha she'll love it and she will be the one to ask questions and get clarification.
Well, I had the same problem with my 3 kids. I was honest and went straight to the point. The two youngest (10 & 11 at the time) left immediately. The oldest (13) still stayed 5 months. They don't believe in God or religion anymore. I don't know where I stand in religion, except that I know that the MORmON church is a fraud. Honesty above all.

After a lifetime of false belief and deluded membership my opinions on this subject tend to be somewhat militant and so it is not uncommon for others to suggest that I am in an "angry" phase.  I post this list on other boards when it is appropriate so it appears here again.  Angry or not, I have yet to hear a compelling reason why my arguments are not accurate.  I don't think that the fact that some mormons are innocent, sincere and nice (I was, as were all of you) nor the fact that people inside mormonism consider themselves happy (I did, as did many of you) are compelling enough reasons to allow mormonism to go without as strong a challenge as the situation can constructively accept.  In the case of my children, challenging and undermining mormonism at each and every possible opportunity is not optional.

Here's why:

1. Mormonism is not just another religion, it is a cult.

2. Membership in the cult is not passive, activity in TSCC will subject your children to continued programming and brainwashing -- its inevitable. Going along, sitting in meetings is a de-facto surrender. Your children will only learn each and every Sunday why YOU are irrelevant and why YOU should not be respected or listened to and why YOU are unworthy and why YOU know nothing compared to the wonderful leaders, etc.

3. Mormonism is not a healthy way to raise children.  The best that can be said is that it MAY suck up alot of time and tend to reduce the opportunities for your kids to smoke or use drugs, but at a tremendous cost.  Your kids will learn emotional manipulation, fear, a false epistemology, irrational guilt and judgment, a false sense of superiority, and compartmentalization.  These psychological and emotional elements will continue to affect and infect their entire lives, relationships, world-views and thought-processes even if they eventually leave the church. We can all testify to the discovery of the damaging effects of mormonism's cult-think emerging in countless ways even after leaving.  It is very difficult to shake off.

4. Meetings, events and so-called "service" in TSCC has the sole purpose of getting people to attend more meetings and events. No good is done, no real service rendered. Service is only rendered to TSCC itself.  Institutional service in mormonism is only about promoting mormonism itself, keeping people busy, public relations, or manipulative agendas (such as lovebombing).  People may feel good about what they do in the church, but anyone will tell you that service provided outside of mormonism is orders of magnitude more personally rewarding and more effective for the recipients.

5. For purposes of helping your family, I would argue that your resignation (if you haven't done this) sets the tone and announces that you are not just a sinner and angry and offended (like your family has been told over and over by the cult) and that you are not a closet-believer either, but that you are putting yourself out there and on the record with integrity. It is false. It is a cult. Resignation IS the proper and healthy response. (Would you want your kids to grow up waffling on an issue of this importance for 10 years, 20, 30?)

6. I would also argue (if the overall situation is amenable with DW) that you have a CRITICAL duty also to demand to be able to raise your children in a way that honors and respects your parenting influence, values, belief systems and life philosophy. I agree with the idea, for example, that DW should be able to take the kids to church HALF the time (and you will go and be supportive if necessary) but that you are permitted to be able to take the kids to learn your values or church (and you would expect her to go along and support you). This is not about teaching them that mormonism is false, but teaching the positive values you believe: critical thinking, appreciation for nature, actual service in actual service organizations, etc. Turning up the contrast and widening the experience base of your children (and DW) can often be coincidentally fatal to TSCC membership, but it is clearly a demonstrably good thing in any case. You can be with your family, you can demonstrate your values, you can introduce positive experiences; its all good. You will show that the slander TSCC will continue to say about YOU is as false as their doctrine.  You cannot survive if your only defining attribute is your "anti" mormonism, nor will you thrive if you are constantly paralyzed from expressing your values and beliefs.

7. It is impossible to grant a "choice" to people in TSCC, especially children. It is a cult and there is no possibility of anyone inside mormonism developing a neutral basis to choose between two concepts. This is not possible. People who think children can grow up in TSCC and then "choose" when they are older are deluded. The entire learned world-view in the cult denies critical inquiry, legitimizes magic, equates emotionality with evidence, and maximizes fear. All the rules of evidence, honest inquiry, integrity and due diligence are violated by TSCC without apology or excuse.

I think that you can un-apologetically schedule another activity on Sunday with your daughter on your terms.  You can calmly explain that you are the parent, she is the kid.  You love her and live to merely teach her and guide her as honestly and as well as you can.  You are human, however and you can be mistaken and misled, as you were when you taught her about mormonism. However, now that you know the facts (the independently verifiable facts) you have a duty to step-up and teach correctly. She doesn't have to like it and she doesn't have to agree with you but that she has to do some things as a kid and you have to do some things as a parent.  Once you have figured out what you wish to do in place of church activities, I would just pull her out cold-turkey.  She can see her friends anytime at your home or theirs and you will not try to influence her friend's opinions.  You are right that the cult-claws are harder to remove every day and there is no better time than now.  Wish you the best and please return and report.

Sheesh, wow, thanks for your generous comments!  I usually get beat up somewhat as a bit of an extremist so your reaction is a surprise.  Thanks again -- remind me to buy you a round some time ;-). 

IMHO mormonism is damaging and chronic in its emotional and psychological effects.  Wise people will respect the dangerous power of this cult, especially in Utah and in other heavily LDS areas or in closed LDS families.  It is so powerful and insidious that most people can't even recognize they are in a cult at all!

I really like the quote you posted as well -- made it to my quote roll of honor.  Cheers


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