...miserable. She wasn't able 
to be with her mom like she wanted or her family. And sex, if possible, got 
worse. She spent and bought and purchased her way out of her depression 
and then it would get worse when our bills came due. She was miserable, 
though she had literally all the free time in the world. I would have killed to be in 
her position, but I was working upwards of 60 + hours a week at times to get 
this project I had been hired to complete off the ground.

I had 2 callings in the church. And she had been called also. It was tough at 
times for the language barrier. But in a couple of months I figured out a lot of 
phrases and began to pick it up. After a year I did quite well in conversations 
so I was ok, though I never studied like I did for the language of my mission, but 
she was completely isolated in her depression and chose to not try to 
assimilate or learn. She did have a group of other American women to 
associate with, but when it's forced and not chosen they weren't the type that 
she would choose to hang out with so it was really hard on her.

My life became work, working out at the gym we had in the condo, and 
swimming with the kids and going to church. To make things worse, I worked 
the nightshift since I worked on an American schedule. So on weekends I 
would try to force my body to switch to daylight to spend time with the family, 
but after 3 weeks it messed my system up way too bad. So weekends became 
me and my xbox 360 at night, and browsing online. By that time I had studied 
enough to know the church wasn't what it claims and I had really began to 
emotionally divest myself of it. But 31 years isn't easy to get over in a couple of 
moths.

Sex became even worse, and I got sick of it. I looked at porn again. Then at 
about 2 in the morning I heard the door open from behind. Of course, I was 
using a new browser and I moved quickly to 'x'it out of the screen...but 2 tabs 
were open, “Are you sure you want to exit out of both tabs?” Thanks a lot Steve 
Jobs... So I get busted. She is crushed...again. Shocka. This time I hold my 
ground, “I am sorry, I am a sexual person, if I don't get it from you, I will get it 
from somewhere.”

It was the first time she realized that the 'church' couldn't be her first, last, and 
only line of defense...but she had no way of dealing with it or even know how to 
rectify it. I wanted sex. But sex was evil..how could she comply? We had a 
massive argument, not the only one, but this time it was the most pointed and I 
was the most blunt. I had received oral sex in the 9 years of marriage less than 
10 times and even then it couldn't be considered 'real' in my mind..just a 
teasing pretend that quickly transpired into me doing what she wanted...same 
ol', same ol. 

She was in freak out mode. Porn was now at the front, back, sides and middle 
of her mind from then on. I made some friends with the management of the 
company and I told her I would spend my time out with them and not online at 
all, or I would just play the xbox 360 on weekends. (every hour or so during the 
evening she would burst from the bedroom in attempt at 'catching me'..but I just 
played. Call of Duty and many others are such good games...thank you Bill 
Gates.) 

This worked out for a good while. Come to find out the 'management', though 
married, were not LDS and didn't care about their fidelity at all. I hung out with 
them, but never did what they did. 

So I started to read books on weekends and during my free time. Two moved 
me to tears. 1984 by George Orwell, and the other Atlas Shrugged by Ayn 
Rand. I did enjoy the 'validation' my political conservatism was looking for in 
them, but it was the dissertation and philosophies on sex that moved me to the 
break point. I cried for hours when Winston in 1984 described the relationship 
between him and his first wife Katharine: 'She had not a thought in her head 
that was not a slogan, and there was no imbecility, absolutely none, that she 
was not capable of swallowing if the Party handed it out to her.' (Part 1, 
Chapter 6, pg. 67) Katharine hated sex, but insisted that she and Winston 
should try to have children for the Party.” The way Winston describes his 
encounters with her...he knew she wanted to enjoy it...but her mind had been 
completely bent to big brothers will and being who she truly wanted to be was 
an impossibility. But every Thursday no matter what. (Every THURSDAY and 
Winston is crying about it! What a wuss! That's like...once a week! I wouldn't 
have known what to do and would have been ecstatic and beside myself!)

Then in Atlas Shrugged, and the relationship that Henry Reardon had with his 
wife Lillian and then with Dagny Taggart and Francisco..etc.. Just the concept 
of giving yourself, wholly, completely, and willingly just because you can and it's 
what you want. That was so foreign to me. But in LDS...you can't. You can only 
do that for God. He is always there and always between you. Ayn Rands 
philosophy about sex. (A million opinions on the subject, but I made my own 
and it fit my current world view at the time quite well...well enough to break me 
to tears reading the book.)

I opened up a Facebook account to keep in touch with friends in the states. 
Immediately I had a lot of local friends and employees on my account as well 
as a lot of stateside. One local 'friend' proved to be extra 'friendly'. Even though 
I was a married man, it was beyond flattering to be perceived as an object of 
affection. So we chatted and chatted. 

Well, the company paid for the flight to let my wife and kids to go back to the 
states for a month and half to see family. I had my 'friend' come over the next 
day. You can't imagine...black lace bra, black lace panties...I made her leave. I 
sat there alone in my condo contemplating the abyss of hell and eternal 
progression in tears. For 3 hours I sat against a wall on the floor blubbering 
and convulsing in tears, weeping and 'gnashing of teeth', literally. (See the 
church is true! They nailed it on exactly how your torment would be! Sarcasm 
people.) The hardest and longest cry of my life. What would happen to my 
family ties and my children? I would never see them again, ex'd, no more 
eternal unit, no eternal burnings for me, just outer darkness ...ad infinitum. Then 
the contrast...living an eternity of invalidation. Living an eternity where I am the 
beggar, begging for scraps from Longshanks table. (Braveheart). Living an 
eternity where 'joy' is exactly there, yet never to be had. Our walls were built, we 
are just not compatible. Either way, I don't know how I made her leave, but I did, 
..just to have her come back the next day...same thing. I made her leave. I still 
had polygamy thoughts via Joseph going through my head and I invited her 
back the next day. Finally I said, “Enough, I am making this choice.”

I failed. I own it. It's my failure, no one else. I knew how to talk to her, I knew 
how to push her buttons and I am the guilty party for inviting her over. The first 
night after, I sent her home and I cried for 10 hours straight, there was no path 
of return I thought. It was over. So now I had to figure out how to be there for my 
kids. Easy, be Joseph Smith and lie. Wife called me that day, “Hey! I am so 
worried...I had the worst dream of my life. You cheated on me. It was horrible. 
You didn't? Did you!?”
(maybe Lehi's dream wasn't BS!)

“WHAT!?” (Faux-righteous indignation) “No way! You are crazy!”
“Ok..well, I am just worried now.”
“Oh my gosh..you are crazy, it's ok.”
“Ok..love you. Do you still love me?” (that phrase became the theme from then 
on out)
“Of course! Gosh, silly! Love you.” 
(Enter Doc Holliday, “It appears my hypocrisy knows no bounds.”)

She worked where I did, and literally nothing but work, food, sex during random 
times, places, and locales, and laying in each other's arms and watching TV 
and eating out. 

Sad, but life had meaning again. I was happy. I was. It wasn't just 'happy' it was 
beyond it. To have someone who prided herself in her sexuality and aimed it all 
at me. I hated garments as it was. So the first time I saw her on the bed, black 
bra, black panties, voluptuous body, jet black hair... I, in some bout of 
herculean celibacy, turned her away, but the moral is that the LDS woman can't 
compete. They just can't compete to something like that. Garments are meant 
to repress and destroy the sexuality in a woman, this woman held nothing back 
and I drank it all in. Swam in it. I felt more appreciation and validation by her 
more in one night then I had felt in 9 years. She just wanted sex and enjoy it. 
She didn't need the 'spirit' to prompt her it was ok. 

I agree you can't base a relationship on sex alone, but I know I am to be with 
someone where sex is more of a priority than just 10 minutes every other 
month and immediately shove the garments back on.

So she flew back. In my mind I wanted to play the 'polygamist' role and say, “I 
truly love them both, there is obviously room for both, so I'll just keep it quiet.”, 
but, I don't see how that can work. I resented my wife to a degree, but more 
than that I felt a deep seated angst at the church for destroying in her what 
could have been something truly amazing and unifying. But she was so 
conditioned and doctrined to believe sex was an abhorration that she carried it 
into the marital relationship. But can you blame her? 

LDS LifeCycle: Born. Baptised. Church, “Sex is evil wrong, be wary! Don't 
date til 16 and only then groups..marry RM, evil sex, bad sex...” Date. Now 
President Oakes, “Oh NOES! The youth actually are OBEYING our 
council...uh...start pairing off! No more groups!” (Damned if you do..damned if 
you don't...) Find partner. Get engaged, “Be CAREFUL! ETERNITY IS ON THE 
LINE!!!” Pray, Pay, Obey. Temple Marriage and literally after one 'yes' later: 
“Where are the KIDS! BIG FAMILIES!”

Sounds great..uh..but that requires sex.

Though we fought and fought and argued over it the 9 years, I was intellectually 
honest enough to not demand her to be who she wasn't. You can't change 
someone. You can force something, but they hate and resent you for it and I 
knew I would never force her to do or be what she didn't want to do or be. I do 
know there are some of the “old school” patriarchal bastards out there, “You 
will submit to your husband” types..but that is a Pyrrhic victory in my opinion 
and how they can look at themselves in the morning and be happy inside is 
beyond me....(this coming from the adulterer (see Doc Holliday quote above)).

For the next 8 months I lived the lie. Kept it secret. I told myself, I will NEVER 
ask for sex from her again. It's not worth it, if she is interested she can ask now. 
So then, after I stopped asking, immediately I was the bad guy for deviating 
from the script, “I am worried? You don't ask me anymore!?” Yeah, I was the 
perfect glutton for punishment: Chinese definition of insanity, “Keep doing the 
same thing and expecting a different result.”

I said, “I am done asking. I am beyond tired of being shoved down and having 
it thrown into my face. I am now pre marriage in sexuality (Hypocrite I was, I 
had more sex in that 8 months than I had in 9 years...) and I am not going to 
ask you for it again. If you want it? Fine, by all means know that I am willing to 
comply. I just don't have it in me to continue being rejected, after 9 years I have 
learned my lesson. You win.” 

She said, “Well, I am just weird.”

I said, “That can't be the only reason. I doubt it, but I am going to ask anyway. 
Were you abused growing up?”

She said, “Oh no! Never.” (My BS detector agreed, I would never suspect that 
to be an issue also.) She continued, “I don't know..I just have a low sex drive, I 
guess.”

I said, “Ok, I can agree with that. I can even respect that.”

So of course it then removed me emotionally from her. Why do all the 
necessary things, why add all the necessary ingredients and then go through all 
the motions to baking a cake, just to be forced to longingly look at it and never 
actually eat it? So I stopped the cuddling, the hugs, the off handed touches 
throughout the day that she used as her validation. I had no validation from her 
and no way was I going to bother anymore. So we had the perfect business 
relationship. We were companions, hang out people, parents in agreement to 
raise out 2 kids. But what she couldn't figure out is why I was pretty much happy 
that way. 

She asks me a lot, “You still love me?”
“Yes.”
“Do you?”
“Yup.”
“You aren't going to leave me?”
“Nope.”

Contract ended overseas after a year and half. I'm still the liar, and hypocrite. I 
am doing all I can to be with my kids and am playing the 'church game' to be 
with them. I still don't ask for sex. It's been over a year and a half and I think I 
'initiated' 2 times in that period. First 'initiation' was met with rejection again. 
So now that we are stateside I tell her we are going to go the Bishop. 

Her words, “But what will other people think if they find out we see the 
Bishop!?”

Then it hit me. “We gotta get counseling for this.” I said.

“But...my parents, and people, I am worried what they'll think.” She returned.

“That's exactly the problem. In all of your thoughts “I” mean nothing. It's only what 
“They” will think. So of course..sex is evil..what if the neighbors knew we had it. 
You are so worried about what the neighbors think. I am done with them and 
their opinions on righteousness. This is us. You must think in terms of me and 
you.”

She agreed, finally.

In her mind the Bishop is her authority figure. I was hoping to get him to say, 
“uh..hellooo? You are married...it's OK?”

We sat in front of him and I just said, “I hold the church indirectly responsible for 
our intimacy issues. I can't 'prove' it empirically, but I feel she has carried the 
cultural guilt that she has received from the people who are part of this 
institution into our marriage. All of the teachings on how evil and bad sex is 
before marriage can't just be pushed aside after the temple marriage 'yes'. So 
now she has 2 conflicting ideals in her head and can't resolve them. Sex is 
bad...but you must have sex for kids..”

“Well, you are married. It's ok to have sex.” He said. (Kudos to him for that.) 
Then to get control of the dialogue he said, “Well, I am just curious if you had 
any preexisting expectations on what intimacy should be like before you got 
married?”

'preexisting expectations' was the codeword for = You had a porn problem, 
right?

I said, “I am from a family of all boys, absolutely we used coarse language, and 
had base assumptions on various things. I have heard and told bad jokes. I 
admit it. As a pretend Alpha Male, I do have a high sex drive.” I continued, “My 
contention is that Joseph Smith was the only Mormon at his time if you think 
about it who was a 100% product of 'Mormonism' when he had his visions 
directly and was given the intelligence and knowledge to restore the church. 
Then he spent the remainder of his years growing it and keeping outward 
dogma and external ideals from infiltrating. He spent most of his time putting 
down false traditions. But after his death, in my opinion, they infiltrated and all 
the 'personal opinions' and ideals of others were given free reign. One of those 
is the idea that the more you 'deny' yourself the 'holier' you are. I reject that. We 
are here that we might have joy. We are told to bridal our passions, not destroy 
them. When you bridal something, you keep it in check and under control, you 
are able to guide to the correct path, but once on that path and in the right 
conditions you can gallop at full speed.”

Then he says, “Well you can't gallop forever.”

I said, “I wouldn't know...I rarely get to ride let alone gallop.” (Now I just turned 
my wife into a horse....geesh. I am a jerk.) “I can't tell you what she was taught 
during her Young Women's classes by her teachers. I don't know who she 
associated with growing up. But I can say that from what I can deduce, it's 
partly her home life and partly her religious upbringing.”

Bishop, “Well, I've never noticed any of that, the way you describe it.”

Me, “I mean, her family is honestly the most sanitized group I have ever met. 
Sexuality, the topic, we all know that in that home it's an unwritten rule that 'sex' 
is completely taboo to be brought up in that family. No one will, and no one 
dares, and no one does. (Her mom is the perfect Utah Statistic for Prozac. 
She has all the symptoms: Stake President's wife and living according to the 
fear of what the neighbor's think. When she is off her meds she is a wreck. In 
my opinion, I now know why, but I will concede that depression is complex and I 
shouldn't paint with broad sweeping brush strokes.)

I went on to say, “I am honest enough to know you can't force someone to 
change. There are a million things I love about my wife. (And there are. She is 
amazing in a lot of ways.) I respect who she is in that. I can even respect that 
she has a low sex drive. But that respect, and all the ways she is a fantastic 
person, do not mean I have to live with that. (It sounds like all I got married for 
was sex...but FYI, I can do anything else BUT SEX in the current situation with 
ANYBODY, male or female, outside of marriage...and that's how it's been with 
us. So, at the end of the day, if I am not going to get my selfish sexual wants 
met, I will change the environment until it is where I am getting my selfish sexual 
wants met.)

Well, after that meeting with the Bishop, she finally grasped how serious the 
situation was. She has initiated more and actually attempted oral sex one time 
to a degree I would consider it 'real'. But it's not who she is. I am grateful to the 
attempt, but it's just not who she is and the guilt will hit her like a freight train. 
She just needs to find someone compatible who is on her level if not more 
stricter. It's done. I destroyed the hope for her change. And also it's just a 
fleeting change. Already things are moving back to the same and I also don't 
expect her to change. My jerkness is to the degree also that I am secretly 
hoping she doesn't to justify myself even more when our relationship ends.

For more research on book 2 of mine I checked out “In Sacred Loneliness”. 
She flipped. Porn has fallen off the front of her mind now, but now she is trying 
to be the 'thought police'. She is now worried I am reading 'ANTI-MORMON' 
literature. I have been quite upfront. I am tired of the guilt this system 
perpetrates. (Many would argue it's because I shattered, pillaged, and maimed 
my baptismal and temple covenants, hence the guilt...but I had been feeling 
guilt starting at about age 9 when the 'Strength of Youth' pointed out my eternal 
damnation for masturbation...OH NOES!!! *Runs around with hair on fire...)) 
Well, sad when the actual history is a threat to current belief. I drop thoughts 
here and there and ask her many questions to try to break open her mind. But 
it's a lost cause and my heart isn't into it. I don't want to ruin her worldview. But 
now she is the 'thought police' and is even more worried about the history 
books I am reading as opposed to Porn. I guess I am just hoping that after we 
are over, I can just prepare her for success with her next 'TBM' as opposed to 
going through a vicious cycle and find another 'me'. 

Painting with the BroadBrush

Once I found an article on the “Double Bind”...the matrix finally had substance 
and I could pinpoint all the guilt. Adam and Eve were “Double Binded”: “Don't 
eat the fruit...to become human...but you must have kids! And in order to have 
kids...you have to eat the fruit to be human. So..Do NOT eat the fruit..but you 
MUST have kids.” They were damned on all accounts...exactly what the binder 
is looking for: You are never good enough, never worthy enough, never praying 
sincere enough...ad infinitum.

Joseph Smith pulled the same tricks. “Sell the Book of Mormon 
copyright!...What!? I can't be wrong...YOU are the guilty one. Oh..well..uh...it 
was from Satan anyway..or a test..yeah ..a TEST!”

“Hey babe...(door creaks open, in walks husband)..uh..Oh! Uh...nothing to see 
here, well, other than God commanded me to have your wife. Yeah! That's it! 
God commanded me to take your wife! But uh..it's just a test, don't worry, 
nothing wrong here,..uh..but I will take your daughter..she's a spry looking fiery 
tart..younger and hotter. Fourteen you say?”

I don't believe, life being hard enough as it is, that God will then deliberately 
mess with us and jerk our chains. Is he that petty? I don't believe so. So I am 
happy believing in God, and I even dig the concept of him being in human form, 
even to the extent that GodJesusGhost are separate and are the CEO's 
running the show! I love that doctrine. But that's as far as it goes. In the world 
of pretend, that's my pretend, as you are all entitled to your 'pretend'. I am not 
going to jihad anyone or force them to see things my way. 

Aftermath

The TBM who reads this will say, “HA! The common denominator is PORN, 
internet, church history and facebook! DEATH TO TECHNOLOGY!!! We must 
BAN the internet, we must change the history (which they overtly have in some 
instances) and be at war with Eurasia only...until the prophets say otherwise!” 

To that I will say, “Porn is the symptom to the greater problem that no one 
wants to face. The church is so embarrassed by “The Deliverance” backwood 
hillbilly polygamists of the early days who founded the club, that they now have 
overcompensated to keep a clean image. This in turn has caused them to 
villify sex and sanitize the history to the point of overt lies in some cases to just 
omitting key facts to keep the 'faith promotion' and frame the debate. The 
church is in denial about this, so 'Porn' and 'homosexuality' are the new LDS 
Red Scare. It, the church, cannot bear to even think that it could be the creator 
of it's own problem. The church knows...'If we lose the women...we lose the 
church' and so porn is on the sermon oven and the heat has been turned up to 
full blast and the men who actually think that 'sex' is necessary have the very 
real chance that they will marry a spouse whose world view on sex is exactly 
the product of the conference talks and cultural society they have been put 
through. 

In my worldview now, pornography is the symptom. Not the problem. Even 
then..if both parties are fine with it..porn isn't even a problem or symptom. 
Whatever you do in your own home..and it's legal..and It doesn't effect me 
unless I want it to...GOOD ON YA!

(My educated guess / bias opinion) The 'broadbrush' truth: 98.3% of men on 
planet earth have looked at porn. The other 1.6% are gay...and look at gay 
porn. The 00.1% remaining who have not partaken of the forbidden fruit are 
commandeering the reins of the Good Ship Mormon and projecting their 'work 
your way into heaven' world view onto us, the sinful masses. Well, I am trying to 
be like Jesus, I love my fellow man/woman and do all I can to serve others. But I 
can never be like Jesus for my physical form is not half deity. I am 100% the 
lineage of Adam, fallen. But, if the accounts are true, he did die for me. But I 
hope the “Q” manuscript is true and not just some rewritten mythos taken by 
others to use and weaponize. Because people are only good and no one is 
looking to usurp power over others...right?

I just do not buy that God put us here to fail and to send us to hell. Life is too 
beautiful and I intend to enjoy it and help others do so as well. 

Church Issues aside from what has been mentioned above:

In the world of the tangible and real, something can be justified as being 
labeled 'true' if it can be replicated and is repeatable. In my book I wrote, it 
focuses on demons and angels and pre-existance etc. Then I read all that 
Joseph Smith had to say about demons and Satan, and there is A LOT. Then it 
just hit me...how were they having all these 'visions' / 'spiritual manifestations' / ' 
Glossololias / Tounge Speaking' / 'Angelic Visitations'...and yet none of that 
happens now? It just does not, and for those who claim it does...it then 
becomes a matter of sign seeking or not having enough 'faith'. How quaint. 

The answer hit me like lightning. Is it because God has ceased to be God? Is 
God not a God of miracles still? I would argue...yes. He is. It is our methods 
and means in which we approach him and get the visions that have changed 
and therefore it is no longer duplicateable. This took me to focus on the Word 
of Wisdom. Under the current rules and system there is no way we can 
replicate the methods in which Joseph Smith and others were able to have 
'visions'. They used entheogens and psychotics. It made perfect sense. I went 
online later...and lo and behold someone wrote the same argument. In my 
opinion the drugs were approached as neutral tools only. How you approached 
them determined their efficacy and outcome. They would darken the windows, 
bar the door, and then would open with prayer and song and then bless with 
prayer and partake the blessed 'wine and bread' of sacrament. The 'laced 
wine' was kept under lock and key. And ALWAYS after it was administered the 
Holy Visions and meeting would get in full swing...literally. 

After the accusation was presented to that very degree...ta da! The 
sacramental wine was immediately changed to water...by revelation. Of 
course, how nice.

Racism, bigotry, and misogyny of the past along with current Prop 8 really 
chapped my hide. If they, the GLBT's have found a happiness and acceptance 
that is eluding the LDS...why take that away? They aren't even part of the club. 
After going through what I have been through, I now take a different view on 
homosexuality, I am more and more confident that it is hardwired. I know how I 
am in terms of sex. I looked at it as a 'choice' only. Well, once the genie was 
officially out of the bottle...I don't see any reason to be forced to hate myself for 
it and deny it and self loathe over it. 

From Tironian script to all the pretzel logic and cognitive dissonance you have 
to engage in to justify theology..I am done. If I am wrong on my accounts. I don't 
want the 'clique', the guilt, the “work and never, ever be good enough.” I am 
mentally and emotionally exhausted and tired of it. I will see God at judgment 
and say, “Well, I was wrong. Sorry. But after reading and hearing all the 
information I could get, this was the most educated decision I could make. 
Why did you put in me a sex drive? Why? Why give me something and then tell 
me to self loathe myself for having it?” That baffles my thought processes. I like 
people. I am friendly. I like people more than rules. I choose happiness and it 
can't be found where I was. There are radical changes coming up to my future.

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Thanks for sharing, seriously, this helped me understand men, mormon marriages, etc, better.

 

You know the funny thing, I was obsessed with sex, making out, cuddling, etc when I was mormon.  Now, I do what I want when I want, and guess what?  I'm not obsessed anymore.  Sometimes by giving your body what it wants, you free your mind for more important things.

 

I'm so sorry you were locked into a marriage before you were ready.  I hope your wife and kids will be okay, and also you.  And I hope some day you can have a satisfying sex life with out having to lie about it.

CamBam: You know the funny thing, I was obsessed with sex, making out, cuddling, etc when I was mormon.  Now, I do what I want when I want, and guess what?  I'm not obsessed anymore.  Sometimes by giving your body what it wants, you free your mind for more important things.

This is exactly what I experienced as well.  Now that Jen and I are out of the church and both fulfilled sexually, neither of us find ourselves needing to masturbate as often, nor are either of us having to beg the other for sex.  When it happens it happens, and happens much more enjoyably and satisfyingly.  Now our relationship is much more quality over quantity.  I think in Mormonism, one is often driven to quantity because the quality is lacking.

Thanks for the insight on the impossible sexual frustration the church puts you in. I've had thoughts similar to this.

My strong mormon mother was always telling us how sexually perverted men were in always wanting it. I can't believe my dad was demanding or pushy about it at all. He was the most kind and loving man I know. He never said an unkind thing to anyone or demanded anything of anyone. I think my mother just didn't like sex, probably to a great extent because of the church teachings.

I remember a strong mormon girlfriend I dated that was worried about being sexually messed-up once she got married. She once asked me If I thought she was frigid. I don't know what happened after she got married, but I do know I worried about her.

I think my true blue mormon sister is also conflicted about sex. I know she was strongly attracted to it when she was young, but now she's always talking about how most people are perverted in noticing buttocks and such.

My ex wife was also very messed-up about it. Even though I was never unkind or pushed her at all, she couldn't bring herself to have sex with me in the 8 months we were married. She couldn't even stand me to touch her or to sit on the same couch with her. She was an extremely strict mormon.

Myself, I'm 69 years old and I've never had sexual relations with anyone. I believed the teachings that pre-marital sex was a bad sin so strongly that I resisted doing it until marriage. I was so hung-up about how important eternal marriage was, that I couldn't get myself to be sure I had the right companion until I was 55 years old. But, of course, I still made a huge mistake in marrying someone that had more hang-ups than I did. That marriage and divorce was so traumatic that I've since decided I will never marry again and most likely will never have a significant other. I'm just depressed about the whole thing.

 

Sorry if I've depressed anyone reading this.

I really feel for you Spud.  The church really does a number on healthy sexuality, turning it into a perversion and something so sinful, it is rarely even enjoyed properly in most Mormon marriages.  For the first 7 years of our marriage, sex was almost always one sided, with me being the only one showing any interest or enjoyment, and her mostly frigid and wanting it to be over.  Now that we're both out of the church, we've both freed our sexuality and enjoy it much sex mutually.  At least you're now able to think and decide for yourself now Spud.

Some people don't care for oral sex.  That doesn't mean there is anything wrong with them.  And, I don't think that people who don't care for oral sex should be expected to engage in it just to please a partner.  But, it would certainly be nice if people felt free to figure out that kind of stuff before they make what's supposed to be a life long commitment with someone.  If sex drive level or oral sex enjoyment is something that is really important to someone, they should feel free to be able to evaluate those things before getting married.

 

Personally, I think it's much better to base a marriage primarily on companionship rather than sex.  There are lots of health problems that can come up, especially as we age, that make sex not possible or wise for sometimes significant periods of time.  If the relationship is based primarily on sex, then not having sex can cause stress in the relationship.  Which doesn't help people overcome the health problems any easier, it usually makes them worse.  If it's based on enjoying each other's company in non-sexual ways, then it's not stressful because the core stuff is still there, you've just temporarily lost a "bonus" item.   If monogamous fidelity is something that one or both members of the couple feel they need, masturbation should be encouraged to make up any differences in sex drive levels or sexual abilities over the years.  And couples should feel comfortable talking about sex with each other so there are no misunderstandings.  Just the spouse and my .02 as people who've managed to stay happily married for 10 years thus far.

 

The problem with the way marriage is approached in Mormonism - well it tends to become all about sex.  Too many of the young people end up thinking that just because they find themselves sexually attracted to someone, that that means they'd make a fine marriage partner.  And quite often, that is not the case.

The problem with the way marriage is approached in Mormonism - well it tends to become all about sex.  Too many of the young people end up thinking that just because they find themselves sexually attracted to someone, that that means they'd make a fine marriage partner.  And quite often, that is not the case.

So True KMV...  I've seen many a unsuitable match because the two people mistook passion for compatibility.  If they could have just gotten it out of their system they may have seen other glaring problems before they were married and not messed up their own lives and the lives of their children...

I'm so glad I found this.  I know its been a year from this story posting, but I'm a new ex-mormon and just found this site.  SEX is kind of the big reason for my leaving the church I'm a 53 yr old woman with 5 sons, but I have never enjoyed sex with my husband, and lately I hate it.  I think you hit the nail right on the head when you talked about how we are thrust together on our marriage night and we don't know what or how to do it.  The church and the time I and place I grew up in made me all repressed, for about 25 YEARS!  i just laid there and took the rutting until I got pregnant. And for 25 YEARS I was MOM, and that was enough.  I loved it, being MOM, i was very, very good at it.  I was able to balance the razors edge between being their friend and still the Ultimate Authority.  Then guess what?  They grew up and got lives of their own.  I found porn by way of fan fiction, and my thoughts were the same as yours, "gotta get some satisfaction somewhere" He cannot get it up for more than a clumsy, quick rut and he's never been interested in pleasuring me (definitely old school).  Still, sexual intimacy is just part of it.  We have nothing in common, I've educated myself, grown, seen and learned of the world and hes a happy troglodyte watching tv and going to church and THAT IS ALL HE DOES. Also, the last bit about homosexuality?  That is another big reason I left the church, F*, if you can find love, it shouldnt matter your gender.  My very best friend is a 50 yr old jewish guy who never had kids, but has been in a committed relationship for over 15 yrs.  I've had many gay friends, it just cannot be a sin to truly love someone

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