So ... I got this from my mom in response to a little post I left for one of my sisters who was asking for prayer and temple assistance with a daughter.
***her daughter has been diagnosed with asburgers syndrome .... Other important info ... My sister is 42, lives with my parents, with her teenager daughter who is of mixed race and who has never known her dad. My sister was fired from her job about a year ago WHILE my parents were still on their mission in MEXICO ... She is still unemployed ... She is attending school though ...
I have 5 kids. I am divorced from their TBM dad, and my youngest is handicapped ... I have never lived with my parents, I went back to school when I was 35, and I have a degree in nursing. I have 8 younger brothers and sisters ...
I will never be able to leave ... Why? Because my mom assumes that because I KNOW ... That I will always know and therefore her words mean something .... I am not dogging the part where she loves me etc, just the rest of it ... Comments anyone? (I know this is a personal note, but I really am bugged by this crap ... Other than a cousin that lives is Japan ... Hi Steve ... No one else in my family see this so I feel safe sharing )

Dear Mindy,

Thank you for the true and wise words you wrote to Vicki. They are words of encouragement and hope for her and for all of us. Being an ordinance worker in the temple has been such a blessing to me and I am learning some things that I wish I had known years and years ago. For instance, when we are sealed to our parents, that sealing is never broken. We are sealed to our earthly parents and to our Heavenly Parents and it is NEVER broken.

Something I have always understood is that our Heavenly Father and our Savior love us unconditionally. That is what they expect of us -- to love unconditionally. We may be disappointed, we may feel angry or hurt because of our children's choices, as I'm sure they are for some of the choices we make, but never do we stop loving them. We were given that precious gift of agency, and we choose what and who we are and who we eventually become. We chose before we came here, we choose all we do here and will continue to coose when we are in the spirit world. We are never without that gift of agency. The good thing about that is, that we never stop learning, and the more we learn about ourselves, those around us and what the Lord want's us to learn, then we are able to make choices that bring blessings of joy and happiness to ourselves, our families as well as those around us.

Max has been a great blessing in our family. He is our teacher in so many ways. I wish we were closer to him (well, I wish all the family were closer). When one thinks of unconditional love, he is the example. What a blessing to have a wonderful person to care for and love him as well as his own family. She is an angel for us all.

I love you, Mindy. I hope you have never thought that I didn't love you because of something you did and said or who you are. You are a great example to me in so many ways. You are our first-born and will always be a great joy and blessing to us because you are a great person with much wisdom and understanding, patience and love for those that are in need and those that are different. I know I was far from perfect as a mother, but I did my best, would I do different now, of course I would, but I could never love you more than I did, because I've always loved you unconditionally.

I love you, by precious daughter,


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What would you like comment on again? I feel like I'm failing to understand what you are in need of. Your mother sounds pretty loving. Does she not know of your disbelief?
Yes Mike she knows. That's the part that bugs me ... Why spout all the eternal bonds are NEVER broken when she know I don't believe that way .... It's frustrating ... I'm sort being unfair maybe ... I live where there is a high consecration of Mormons so I hear it all the time ... People assume way to much ... Yes she is a very loving mom, but it's annoying that she assumes I believe all that other crap ... Agggg really I'm just venting ... And maybe I'm the only one that feels like its judgmental to say that stuff when she knows I'm not going to return to that lifestyle ... It just feels like no matter what I don't get to leave the church and have a more than superficial relationship with my family.

That is their doing, and not yours.  We can only get as close to people as they let us.  While that is frustrating at times and not very hopeful, it's generally what we would want in return from others.  Good luck.


I appreciate your sharing.  Obviously we can't leave the church entirely behind - as long as we have family members still in it.  My sister continued to talk to me for a while like I was a fellow believer.  She did it less and less though because I would remind her that I don't believe it anymore.  (I quit in May 2009).  Your mom's letter sounds like something my sister might write.  My mom on the other hand accepted right away the fact that I no longer believe.  Maybe my sister and your mother were so shocked they simply could not believe their family member had really changed - and perhaps they didn't want to believe we had changed.  It probably shakes their own faith and makes them feel insecure - so they dig in even more.  I want to tell family members sometimes that it isn't true - but I don't because families can be broken up if one spouse believes and the other does not.  

Hi Sherrill,

  I understand your view on not being able to leave the Church / family behind.  Allow me to share that I have an original view on this.  We can most definitely  leave the LDS Church Borg behind.  When we deal with our family members you deal with, get this, you deal with, ..Them the person".   Way to often the mind control that  Salt Lake is so used to that they feel it is normal, is used by us on us.  Learn what the person likes.  Do they like hamburgers, maybe with onions?  ...mayo???  When was the last time you took a stroll with them and discussed things that did not touch on anything LDS?  People within the LDS Borg have absolutely lost the ability to actually...communicate, think, do anything outside of the ideological gravitational pull of the damned LDS / Borg.  That created difficulties, huge sometimes insurmountable difficulties!  They cannot communicate, they cannot share their insecurities and receive love and support from trusted family members!  

Have you noticed something...think about this...we said it so much that we forgot there is a meaning behind words.  You told others...join the "Church".  We never said "Join Christ" did we.  Do you notice where the emphasis was?  It was in making the largess power and size.  Any decrease in numbers is hid from members if it cannot be "finageled".     People cannot communicate without hiding behind the Church.  Sorta like a guy that is a auto repair guy that cannot start a conversation with a girl without leading in the conversation and its always "auto repair".  WTF, what girl wants some guy talking to her like that.  If he is not smart enough to know "why" he is talking to her (and it ain't starters) then he has issues, as do most Mormons.

Talk to their heart.  Love them, be nice, hug them, let them know you love them.  They may feel as you do and just lack the gumption. :)



I was just venting ... I agree with your last post though ... A discussion with my mom without bringing up anything church would be short and uncomfortable ... That's what us so stupid about the email she sent me ... So much brainwashing as you stated ... So Rediculous .... I'm done ...

Perhaps i am not fully understanding.  Could you please restate in a few direct sentences what it is that you are looking for on this issue.  I see some emoting  and that is a valid part of the human experience.  But the focal point eludes me. :)



I wanted to respond to this when it was first posted, but I was very busy at the time, so just now getting to it. I think the difficulty in all of this is that by finding out the church isn't true you now have a different view of the entire world.  Having your mother blather on about principals of mormonism is disrespecting you and your new found beliefs. I suspect your Mom is in total denial and having so many Mormons go bad, only to return and be the strictest TBM's on the planet, probably makes her think it is just a matter of time until you come to your senses.  The worst part of this is that you have this new knowledge, that frankly once you understand it is quite logical and easy to follow. You want to share it with people and at least be allowed to feel a little clever for having it figured out. 

Most of what I was originally going to say has already been covered by you and Don, Sherril and Mike.  Just to go along with the discussion I can confirm that the collective mormon thought pool is vast, but shallow.  They become a bit like Stepford wives and husbands and repeat words that make up the Mormon language.  It would be a fun experiment to get a group of women together, or men, but we are speaking of your mother here. At any rate have ten of them in the room and tell them they can't discuss anything Mormon or their children or even use words like Relief Society, etc.  I think my experience is that the room would be instantly quiet.  I have mentioned this to my family and will admit they are all working on it. We bless the food at their house, but they respect my rules and don't at mine.  I wish you well and share in your frustration along with everyone else on this site. You are among friends here and unlike the Mormon world  we do speak your language quite fluently. Speaking for myself and many others, I hope you keep coming here to vent. It's what we do.


Devil Bar Kokhba


Haha DevilBK. Loud laughter here .... A group in a room ... No talk about church ... Bahaa it would never happen. It doesn't happen where my family is concerned either. Sometimes I just want to shout at them ... I AM NOT IN THE CLUB ANYMORE QUIT THE MORMON SPEAK!!! I know it will never happen but ... Ahh ... At least I can vent about that here ...

Something else I find funny, again this is my family ... Half of them can do nothing but complain about church and they make fun of people and things they are called to do, but they would never admit it to my parents or quit attending ... Let alone study the truth ... I know they are all intimidated by the mainstream peers, and by my parents but it is truly annoying that my brothers look at porn and laugh or what ever and then go to church on Sunday and do their priesthood duty. I hate hypocracy ... its the first thing I discovered when I was a little Mormon girl in firsst grade ... I wrote a blog post about that sand I have shared it before so I will spare you. That is the most annoying thing about TBMs. Thanks for your thoughts ..

A persons inability / a peoples inability, to start and hold a conversation without bringing up religion is not something for a person (them) to be proud of.  Its actually very sad, shows a dullard approach to life and the world around you.  And then they have to close everything from a trip to the grocery to  a family dinner with a closing prayer....  Something is controlling their thought processes and limiting their potential as a human.  I have heard of young men and ladies starting a date with a prayer....PAAAALEEEEEEEEZE!  

Joseph Stalin and Adolf Hitler did not have that kind of control!  By God (literally) Salt Lake does tho.



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