Business Week Article:

Late last March the Mormon Church completed an ambitious project: a megamall. Built for roughly $2 billion, the City Creek Center stands directly across the street from the church’s iconic, neo-Gothic temple in Salt Lake City. The mall includes a retractable glass roof, 5,000 underground parking spots, and nearly 100 stores and restaurants, ranging from Tiffany’s (TIF) to Forever 21. Walkways link the open-air emporium with the church’s perfectly manicured headquarters on Temple Square.Macy’s (M) is a stone’s throw from the offices of the church’s president, Thomas S. Monson, whom Mormons believe to be a living prophet.

On the morning of its grand opening, thousands of shoppers thronged downtown Salt Lake, eager to elbow their way into the stores. The national anthem blared, and Henry B. Eyring, one of Monson’s top counselors, told the crowds, “Everything that we see around us is evidence of the long-standing commitment of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to Salt Lake City.” When it came time to cut the mall’s flouncy pink ribbon, Monson, flanked by Utah dignitaries, cheered, “One, two, three—let’s go shopping!”

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The statement below from the article that would really bug me if I were still a tithe paying member would surely be the following.....:

"According to an official church Welfare Services fact sheet, the church gave $1.3 billion in humanitarian aid in over 178 countries and territories during the 25 years between 1985 and 2010. A fact sheet from the previous year indicates that less than one-third of the sum was monetary assistance, while the rest was in the form of “material assistance.” All in all, if one were to evenly distribute that $1.3 billion over a quarter century, it would mean that the church gave $52 million annually. A recently published article co-written by Cragun estimates that the Mormon Church donates only about 0.7 percent of its annual income to charity; the United Methodist Church gives about 29 percent".

How do they live with a clear conscience?

“material assistance.”  !  Most of this is donations to the Deseret Industries.  So, the LDS church gets donations from people, sends it out around the world and then claim credit for donating it.  Its mostly just the junk that didn't sell at a Saturday yard sale.  But, these items are "estimated" with a dollar amount ant the church can add that to the total donations they gave.  Pretty clever way to pad the total.

Monson's response kind of blows me away.  Off in neverland type of attitude, while millions are scratching for work and have no healthcare.  And please, let's mention Mellaluca (sp?) and Amway while we're talking here.  Thousands of LDS women and men ripping off the populace under a nicely shadowed quasi ponsi scheme.  And don't respond and tell me the wondrous value of these products.   Puleeze, I do have a brain.  Brings me back to the days of buying an aloe vera product at parties in my ward.  Well, after drinking the crap for two weeks, I wound up in the hospital, ten pounds lighter, that I didn't have to lose.

The what if's are many maybe the well was close to home or a fire in the oven if no women around to wait on the man, etc.
Suffering painful feelings (poignant) or you mean touching impression of the image
could it be pungent (smelled like a goat). I am overwhelmed by rueful retort, the scripture in 2 Tim 3: 1-7 certainly applies in it's context

TO excell at penurious vexation talk are words without human dignity and lack ignoble
qualities of a begger

  My  Great-Great Grand Father is/was a polygamous *8 Wifes and 24 children Thomas James Broadbent one of very select men to recive a endowment  lived in Provo Utah


The Genealogies of my family are recorded  at LDS FamilySearch Centers

The mormons of today are the most mislead  people on earth  I wonder if they still belive that Joe Jr did not have sex with his friends wifes  and Brigham Young did not say Adam was God

in the flesh  And talked to him self in garden

I have a question. 

In the bible it says we should give 10% of our income to charity. the invasive way the church collects their tithing is one of the things that really boils my blood, so I'm curious as to how much of the 10% that my father and other relatives wastes on their 'cult' actually goes to charities and how much goes toward 'church initiatives' ??? If anyone can add some insight, it would be great to add to my arsenal of info..........

Luke tells us to give 10% of our money.   In the same text it tells us to fast twice a week.  So, you can see there are many verses not taken literally

By the first century C.E., the Jewish religious leaders, particularly among the scribes and Pharisees, were making a sanctimonious show of tithing and other outward works, in a form of worship, but their hearts were far removed from God. (Mt 15:1-9) Jesus reproved them for their selfish, hypocritical attitude, calling attention to their being meticulous to give a tenth even of “the mint and the dill and the cumin”—something they should have done—yet at the same time disregarding “the weightier matters of the Law, namely, justice and mercy and faithfulness.” (Mt 23:23; Lu 11:42) By way of illustration, Jesus contrasted the Pharisee who boastfully felt self-righteous because of his own works of fasting and tithing, with the tax collector who, though considered as nothing by the Pharisee, humbled himself, confessed his sins to God, and begged for divine mercy.—Lu 18:9-14.


Tithing for Christians. At no time were first-century Christians commanded to pay tithes. The primary purpose of the tithing arrangement under the Law had been to support Israel’s temple and priesthood; consequently the obligation to pay tithes would cease when that Mosaic Law covenant came to an end as fulfilled, through Christ’s death on the torture stake. (Eph 2:15; Col 2:13, 14) It is true that Levitical priests continued serving at the temple in Jerusalem until it was destroyed in 70 C.E., but Christians from and after 33 C.E. became part of a new spiritual priesthood that was not supported by tithes.—Ro 6:14; Heb 7:12; 1Pe 2:9.

As Christians, they were encouraged to give support to the Christian ministry both by their own ministerial activity and by material contributions. Instead of giving fixed, specified amounts to defray congregational expenses, they were to contribute “according to what a person has,” giving “as he has resolved in his heart, not grudgingly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.” (2Co 8:12; 9:7) They were encouraged to follow the principle: “Let the older men who preside in a fine way be reckoned worthy of double honor, especially those who work hard in speaking and teaching. For the scripture says: ‘You must not muzzle a bull when it threshes out the grain’; also: ‘The workman is worthy of his wages.’” (1Ti 5:17, 18) However, the apostle Paul set an example in seeking to avoid bringing an undue financial burden on the congregation.—Ac 18:3; 1Th 2:9.

Luke who?  Polly your well intended but please quote the verse?

Luke’s writing confirms that he was well educated. He wrote in a pure, flowing style of Greek. His sentences are more complex than are those in the other Gospels, and he uses a larger vocabulary.

The introduction of the Gospel also reflects Luke’s learned, well-schooled background. It begins: “Whereas many have undertaken to compile a statement of the facts that are given full credence among us, just as those who from the beginning became eyewitnesses . . . , I resolved also, because I have traced all things from the start with accuracy, to write them in logical order . . . that you may know fully the certainty of the things that you have been taught orally.” (Luke 1:1-4) This resembles introductions in classical Greek literature.

Luke here assures his readers that he is not proceeding on the basis of hearsay or mere oral tradition. Why? Since Luke evidently did not become a disciple while Jesus was on earth, when Luke was preparing his Gospel he did careful research among “eyewitnesses.” Also, he investigated contemporary records, ‘tracing all things from the start with accuracy.’ This should build our confidence in Luke’s writings.

But how did Luke obtain his detailed information? At a certain point in its account of Paul’s travels, the book of Acts switches from the third person (“he,” “they”) to the first person (“we,” “us”). It is understood from this that Luke began to travel with Paul during his second missionary journey. (Acts 16:10) Evidently by accompanying Paul to Jerusalem at the end of the third journey, Luke would there have been able to interview men and women who were eyewitnesses of Jesus’ ministry. (Acts 21:1, 7, 15-18) There Luke may also have examined documents, such as those used in preparing the genealogy at Luke 3:23-38.

Honestly, this is exactly the kind of shit that has aroused so much criticism against the Catholic church. How is the Mormons' new shopping center any less of a statement of power and authority that the mighty cathedrals of Europe, drowning in their gold statues and silk curtains, millions of dollars of paintings from every floor to every ceiling. It is just as digusting to me today as it was to the protestants all those years ago.

The messege is simple. "We can take you money and do whatever the fuck we want. We can do it anytime, for any reason, and if you don't pay it you can kiss your temple reccomend goodbye, and miss your family while you rot in the wrong kingdom."

Thomas Paine said that all religions are "man made" entites "set up for power and profit." I am inclined to agree, especially after hearing the facts.

I think there is another message people often miss.  If they choose, they can believe in a creator and never set foot in a church building.  It isn't a necessity.  If that gives them comfort, then there's no harm.  If they choose to believe in the passing of spiritual energy after death, like we hear about from well known mediums, there's no harm.  And if they choose buddhism, wicca, or just plain and simple atheism, it's their lives, and as a believer, I fail to see a perfect God capable of hating his creation just because some don't say the magic words, or, wear the right underwear.  Verbalizing something just so someone else in church accepts you is another form of works abuse, in my not hardly enough opinion.

Just found out from my latest research, and I already knew I was a jew from my mother's side of the family, making it bonafide since it's the female connection, but my great grandmother and great great grand father, on separate family sides, were jews.  My father laughingly suggested I attend synagogue.  Actually, I've already been there.  Lovely people, but talk about legalistic.  Whoa Nellie!


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