So, as I've released myself from TSCC my opinion on many things has changed, sometimes dramatically... as I'm sure many of you can relate.

I was wondering about other people's thoughts on porn... have they stayed the same? altered somewhat? changed completely?  Or what?

I have mixed feelings about this subject and want some help sorting it out.

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The bathroom "wallpaper" is reportable child abuse in my state. You make the case for sex addiction with that example. Sad really for those children. They will bring that up with their therapist someday.

yeah, they will, because we live in such an intensely repressed society, that simple celebration of the human body is forbidden. Playboy is some seriously mild porn. But it's that same attitude that makes it so great works of art are raced past in museums by giggling youth who somehow think they have just wittnessed something naughty or dirty. it's the same societal attitude that makes it so my 7YEAR OLD thinks there are parts of his body that are "BAD"! It's a disgusting attitude. I'm not saying we should all leave playboy about, but if you think for even one minute that playboy destroyed your friends marriage, that you are fooling yourself. and You were not as familiar with the situation as you thought you were. Excessive use of porn is a sympom . . .  NOT a disease. I take this from the words of people I know who HAVE crossed that boundary. The didn't do it for the porn. they did it to ESCAPE. . . . which means all was not well in denmark to begin with. 

 

So, no. I don't think for even a  single minute that porn destroys marriages. People do that. by Neglect, by attempts to controls, by anger, by insecurity. 

 

Porn isnt the problem in those marriages, it is just a symptom. and an insucure spouse, who somehow thinks erroniously that the other partner is looking at porn as a judgement on them, is simply ignoring all the other problems in the marriage. do people do this? pretend that everything is fine when it really really isnt? hell yes, they do. It's why a person can be completely taken by surprise when their partner says "I'm leaving." It's not like the problems werent' there all along, it's just denial. people are good at it. 

 

But I very seriously doubt a stack of innocuous playboys in a private bathroom ended a marriage. why didnt' she put them up? or keep the kids out of daddys bathroom? we all have places in our houses the kids arent' allowed. nonsense. there were other issues there. many. 

 

I know this isn't what you want to hear. and you will argue me on it. but citing porn as a destoryer of marriages is a) a very fundamentalist type attitude--christian and mormon, and b) like saying video games are the source of all violence. It's nonsense. 

 

There are plenty of valid arguments against porn: the objectification of women, the irregulation of the industry, the unknown quantity of people who are not involved by choice, in a world where the accessibility rises daily and the demand is very heavy. All good arguments. 

 

Playboy causes divorce is just silly, though.

 

P.S. if that is all they have to talk to the therapist about, then they are in really good shape! and the insurance won't cover therapy for long. But I'm sure they will have more fertile ground for therapy in how mommy and daddy would fight. or maybe in the codependency issues. 

In all fairness, I should disclose I am an addiction therapist so my views may be skewed some. I tend to see the worse side of addiction, yes, even sex addiction does to one's life. Remember the classification is sex addiction, of which porn is just one vehicle. Think of it as the alcoholic may prefer beer to vodka. The sex addict may prefer porn to strip clubs. The substance or porn doesn't destroy marriages, rather brain dysfunction resulting from addiction does. What do our brains, as an organ, do for us?...thoughts, emotions, and behaviors.

Addicts in the Mormon church have had so much shame thrown on them by well meaning bishops and SP who know nothing about addiction treatment. They are told to "just stop" or "fast and pray more". When these dont work, the addict is more shamed and believing there is something horribly wrong with them because God will not cure them of their addiction. This is sad story I have heard too many times. I live in California, where the Mormon culture does not dominate thank goodness.

As an addiction therapist, I'm very surprised you made the leap from having playboys in the private bathroom of the house, specifically "Daddy's bathroom", to sex addiction. I have a bottle of vodka in the fridge, but I'm not an alcoholic. I have a deck of playing cards, but I'm not a gambler. I have a visa card, but I'm not a compulsive shopper. 

 

I fully agree that the church does not treat addiction. they like to pretend it doesn't exist. and those who are addicted, that is a WHOLE other issue. 

 

But I take exception to the idea that porn is univerally addictive to anyone who looks at it once. that's just silly. And honestly the more worrying aspect of the "playboys in daddy's bathroom" issue isn't that the kids were exposed to it so much as the instant shame and guilt I'm almost certain they were instantly inflicted with . . . for seeing breasts. nuts. 

No leap to addiction there...reread Pollypinks comment. It's one thing to have a private collection of ones favorite porn, it is another to make it accessible to children, for this example, all over the walls of a bathroom children use. Having an addictive substance in your possession doesn't make you an addict. Repeated use will for most people. As one man I treat said, "at one time it was a choice, then I lost control."

This discussion thread is obviously a hot button issue. It is not my intention to persuade or have others come to my way of viewing the "porn" issue. Each one of us that has been affected by addiction in some way, either through self or loved ones, knows the trauma it brings.

I personally do not judge others, addicted or not, for their choices. This is, in part, my reason for leaving the church.
Being a person who's marriage fell apart and porn was one of the issues, I have to agree with you Libby.

It really was a symptom of the breakdown in communication, in trust, in intimacy. I told my exhusband over and over that its not that he was looking at porn that was the problem for me its that he lied to me about it becase he couldn't talk about what the real problem was and he used it to escape and avoid working on our relationship. Seriously, if we had been emotionally close and physically intimate I wouldn't have cared if he occasionally looked at porn when I wasn't around. But we had MUCH bigger problems.

Thanks for the reminder of the wallpaper being abuse.  At that point in time, it wasn't in my state.  At least that's what I learned when I asked a social worker friend.  But the wife, jeez, the crap she put up with really bugged me.  He was already retired when I met her, so he did the cooking and cleaning at home.  Sounds good, right?  He'd fix wonderful meals, then put what he thought she deserved on her plate.  This lady was as thin as I am, and after a day as a nurse on our feet, we'd be hungry.  So he controlled her food, as well as other things.

Folks here like to talk about casual porn use, because if we accuse anybody of anything else, we're accused likewise of behaving like mobots.  But the evidence is in.  Porn is more of an addiction problem and less of an isolated couples enjoyment issue.  Young boys who never learned how to deal with emotions, or were abused in any number of ways, will likely turn to porn or something else as they age.  And then they get married, and their wives want them to stop, but the problem is they can't.  So they go around in circles blaming the wife for the problem, you know, "You don't perform enough", that kind of shit, knowing full well they have this problem even when the wife isn't problematic.  I personally think getting involved in it is dangerous, and studies show that men who are addicted to sex, porn, what have you, will pass that on to their children, even though it's kept secret in the house.  It's passed on for generations.  If you yourself have a sex addiction, you can bet your sweet bippy someone before you had it as well.

I never said Playboy causes divorce.  But sex addiction does.  And you don't know you might be addicted because addicted people are caught up in a cycle of denial, and they always claim they can stop anytime.  I think it's fine if adults want to be involved with porn.  But if you want to know if you or your S.O is an addict, just take it away.  See how long he can go without it.  If he drinks every day but insists he isn't addicted, tell him to stop drinking for 6 months to prove his point.  Anyone who's lived with an alcoholic will tell you the alcoholic won't fess up, nor will a sex addict, or drug addict, or, even someone with severe codependent behavior.  I knew that my teen son was bringing around porn magazines.  I didn't know how, as he was underage.  I didn't rant and rave over the situation, because that's not going to help.  But I did tell him how I personally felt, that women were being objectified and used, and that taken too far, it might not be easy to stop.  I do not know if or when he stopped.  I suspect he stopped, but I never brought it up again, only to say I wasn't comfortable with it in my home.

I agree that this is a complex and personal subject. It's not the sexual content of porn that I have an issue with. In my experience it exploits women and is disrespectful to them...dehumanizing, violent, unrealistic, fetishes, etc. Completely outside the contest of religion, sexual additions do exist, are very powerful, and can hinder a persons ability to have a healthy happy sex life. It becomes complicated because complete abstinence, shame, guilt, and denial can fuel the fire of addition.  So what does one do? You have to find your own level and remember that "balance" is always a good motto for life.

During a previous relationship that suffered from sexual incompatibility, I became heavily addicted to porn. This only worsened things on my side of the equation--I actually conditioned myself to have ED for real women!

After that relationship ended, I went for two 1-night stands, and preformed very poorly both times because I still watched porn so often.

Many people know that porn can ruin intimacy in committed relationships. This is because the click-and-go nature of internet porn creates INSANE bursts of dopamine; it very much rewires our arousal circuitry. I am saying all this because if there's anything that humiliated me as much as Mormonism, it was my addiction to porn.

Please check out www.nofap.com and www.yourbrainonporn.com

I DO NOT think sex is bad. I hope if any of you are unconfident and heavy porn viewers you will check out my links. Everyone deserves good sex! I no longer suffer :)

When still mormon, I abhorred even thought thought of porn just like all those other sweet little ignorant wifies with flowered dresses and a houseful of kidlets. Now, free at last!, I respond a little differently. It's important to realize that basic difference between male and female sexual arousal: the visual. As a woman, as an artist, when I look at porn, I probably see it differently than a man. I see the pimples on her butt, his dead eyes. I look at the actors and think about who they are. Once in a great while, I run across porn that looks like lovemaking, and I like that, whether you call it hard/soft or whatever. Lovemaking interests me, but endless banging, fake breasts, penetration closeups.....ho-hum. 

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