I'm interested in hearing the number one reason why everyone left the mormon church. What was the final straw that broke the camels back for you? Please be specific. I realize for most it's for various reasons, but if you could narrow it down to one or two reasons I'd really be interested in hearing about it. Was it a certain doctrine taught? Was it something from the history? Was it the way it made you feel? Did you have some kind of spiritual experience or vision telling you to leave? etc. etc. Please share. Thanks
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Thank you for your thoughts, insights and contributions to this discussion. It is not my intention to convert anyone to my way of thinking, but to state clearly what I have discovered and present my own thoughts and ideas, just as you do.
There seems to be this idea that if you study something extensively or read enough books then what you believe cannot be desputed. There also seems to be this notion that if something can't be proven false then is automatically true. I say that all religions are built on a false premise and so Mormons share equally in the dellusion along with all religions.
Regarding psychics, I would submit that a quick Google search on Houdini would give you a pretty good idea of how that all works. I believe Houdini was more interested in finding one who was legitimate than he was in disproving their craft. Ultimately, he never found anyone who wasn't running a con game. I respectfully accept his research over yours, since he better understood the world of magic and illusions.
Just because you can't explain something to yourself, does not mean there is no explanation. I reject your notion that there has ever been or ever wil be proof of spirits existing anywhere in this world or any other.
I would submit that if you spent as much time studying evoloution, you would more logically come to the conclusion that Science does indeed have it right. I would also point out that you twisted my words to make your point. I did not say that Mormonism is false so all religions must also be false. I did state plainly that the foundation that all religions are built upon is the same and so if the foundation of Mormonism is not sound, then neither are the other religions.
I respect your opinion and enjoy reading your thoughts, but will admit to being dissappointed that you could not make a better case for religion.
Eish! Reading the postings above has me leaning towards the doctrine of "Ignorance is bliss" ---I am feeling very uneducated right now
Doctor Dahesh, I like reading your remarks. You give me much to think about. Most people don't spent so much time trying to weed out the garden of lies/thorns in order that they may come to an understanding of the truth. At least the truth as it exists in this universe. Thanks.
Let me see if I have this correct. After years of studying and researching various religions, the foundation of your beliefs rests firmly on the validity of psychics and an even less reliable source, that of television shows like Long Island Psychic. Perhaps if you presented something from The Upanishads or any other argument I might at least entertain the validity of your argument. To base my belief in God on the Validity of your psychic and television shows is absurd.
What you have succeeded in doing is defending the validity of the Mormon church. If the dead can speak to you of butter and noodles, then why shouldn't I believe that Mr. Smith spoke with God. If I accept your explanation, then I have to give validity to Joseph Smith.
What you are representing to me should be a more concise ontological argument. What I am representing to you is Hume's view which is stated as follows:
Nothing is demonstrable, unless the contrary implies a contradiction. Nothing, that is distinctly conceivable, implies a contradiction. Whatever we conceive as existent, we can also conceive as non-existent. There is no being, therefore, whose non-existence implies a contradiction. Consequently there is no being, whose existence is demonstrable.
You cannot prove the existence of God, by saying I can't disprove the existence of God. What point would there be in going around and disproving things that others imagine to exist.
Bar, you should be ashamed of yourself talking that way to such a well educated speciman, such as the Doctor Dahesh. Afterall, he/she/it is a divine expert in Fantasy and should be respected as such. How dare you question his extreme education and vast knowledge in the universe of Fantasia and its Fantastic Elements? I am appalled! Show some consideration and respect for the prop.
I respect DrDanish's opinion and enjoy his contributions as much as you do. He is one of my favorite posters and I wouldn't worry that we have a different view on life one of us from the other. I enjoy hearing his and everyones opinions and do not seek a consensous on any subject. I know there was some levity in your remarks, but wanted to be clear on my enjoyment of DoctorDahesh's thoughts. I am sure there are many more things we agree on than disagree.
Just to be clear, Doctor Dahesh is the screen name of the person who is making the remarks. The person making the remarks is not Doctor Dahesh, no more than I am the Devil or Bar Kokhba. The real Doctor Dahesh aka Salim Moussa El-Achi aka The Prophet of Lebanon, died in 1984.
Number one reason for leaving.
1- To be true to myself.
"What's the matter with you? All it takes is faith and trust. Oh, wait...there is something I forgot. Dust."
"Yep, just a little bit of Enchanted Dust"
"Look at me, I'm rising off the floor. Does this mean that our time is at the door?"
" Well, you are now free of the gravitation pull, which means you are not able to be influenced by them anymore, therefore...I am certain that you are free to go. The evidence is your instinctive ability to transcend the lure of the various string theocracies of their perpetual floors. I guess they will have to capture others to do their eternal chores."
"There are a few more implements to help you float through the walls, and re adjust the hands. You will need magical wands, sunkissed twine, cleared for landing plastic, and of course, blessed swaddling bands."
Actually some of the things that character DoctorDahesh writes about are interesting. I should have left it at that. Sorry about the teasing Sir. It was low of me. Your character is capable of doing far better things. In truth I am getting bored with being teased and in teasing, which is quite encouraged in this atmosphere. I never tease, or get teased in my dreams. It is much safer and more peaceful there.
Some people talk about merely leaving a toxic religion or various toxic religions. Others mention the wrongs in political parties or governments. Then there are those who find that they are not in the right family, and leave. For me, I do not adhere to any religious doctrine that has been brought forth.( by Doctor Dahesh) or anyone in this atmosphere. I do not align myself with any political party and I am not in league with any jurisdiction in this universe.
I work at being a zero entity which is really quite impossible in a sub zero world, therefore I fall in line with all sub zero ideals, like everyone else who is trapped here. Being in this world is not my dream or my desire. I know I was meant for much, much more than this frozen time frame can bring forth. Without question, I know I can and will do better than this putrid world, and I believe that each one of you can too. My faith is not anywhere in this atmosphere. This is not just about leaving the Mormon Faith, It is about having the intellect and faith in my own self, and leaving a little world, and it's little people far behind me in time and space. I strongly believe in distancing myself from this tiny universe.